Who is Stephanie Brown? Didio and the government don’t want you to know the truth! Fight the power and read something related to the truth! The Brown is out there!
The first and only female Robin. DC decided to axe her even before Bill Willingham started writing for her. And they killed her by penetrating her with a power drill. For years, there was division within DC about if Brown even was important at all. DiDio would say she was never Robin, while the comics had Batman saying she was Robin. It’s one of the most awkward sexism-in-comics stories out there.
Also Huntress being Robin and Powegirl being Earth 2′s Supergirl just pisses me off immeasurably. It “reduces” the Huntress/Powergirl identities so much, like they’re nothing but poor alternates. Karen owned that identity damnit, and now it’s just a disguise. :p
If you’ve read the Flashpoint crossover you’d know that Pandora re-wrote history and combined three different universes to create the New 52. Really, it isn’t so much the New 52 as it is a Post 52 universe.
I love it and I REALLY hope DC stays with it rather than scrubbing it and bringing back all the convoluted continuity that they were trying to get away from.
If a character looks different, acts different, has a different origin, a different history, and different powers, they’re effectively a completely separate character – regardless of name. Pick any three of the above and they’re still a different character.
This is why the news that “Alan Scott, Green Lantern who has been happily married for thirty years and has grown up kids is now suddenly gay” didn’t faze me – because that wasn’t true. The Alan Scott that I care about was killed off, murdered off-screen literally between panels in the time-changing event called “Flashpoint”.
Flashpoint was the biggest slaughter the DC Universe has ever seen.
I should probably point out that my point about the Alan Scott thing is that an author can do whatever they want with a brand new character that no one has ever seen before – which Nu52 Alan is. He’s an entirely unrelated character to the previous character, save he has the same name and similar powers.
Thanks, I haven’t read any DC comics in years and thus unfamiliar with this character which Willis is suggesting that someone(DC?) wants to Retgone her.
The scary thing too, is that several of DC’s A-list creators working on their top books actually were interested in using her, and were told they couldn’t.
She was a minor Gotham hero named Spoiler, and Robin (Tim Drake)’s love interest. After he quit being Robin for a while, she took up the mantle.
She never got much respect, however, either in or out of universe. In order to prove her worth, she tried to enact a mothballed secret plan of Batman’s she found out about, which would basically end all organized crime in Gotham by uniting the gangs under a single crime boss named Matches Malone.
She figured that the reason Batman had come up with this scheme was that Malone worked for him. What she didn’t know that that Matches Malone is Batman. And he had no idea she was trying to execute this crazy scheme, meaning “Matches” didn’t show up to do his part, and a gang war resulted.
Stephanie was “killed” as a result. I put quotes around that, because while the idea was that she DID die at the time (that’s how it was written anyway). But the editors later on decided that she had survived after all, and was in hiding with Leslie Thompkins. That reveal is what this strip is about.
So her tenure as Robin was short, and ended rather badly. Which is a shame, because she was otherwise a pretty cool character.
Well, for now we’ve only got a theory on this, since supposedly the decision to pull Saturday’s YJ came from CN. And it just happens to have Stephanie Brown in it.
Like an episode of Smallville almost had, until it got pulled.
Of course, the episode was released to iTunes, so if there are any changes, it’ll be pretty freaking obvious this was the reason.
Still, the decision to cut the show came through on Wednesday, I think & it isn’t coming back until January. We only know she’s Stephanie Brown thanks to the credits. Why 3 months just to make a little tweak, to the credits?
Because Stephanie Brown had nothing to do with the decision at Cartoon Network. That’s just a fanboy conspiracy theory that assumes entirely too much power on the part of DC editorial.
The Smallville thing is what’s baffling… that’s not even the main DC continuity but she’s being nix’d there too. Actually it’s not baffling at all. This is the same bull as DiDio’s Wally West moratorium to push Barry Allen. Fans Must Like Barbra Gordon, so no alternatives are allowed. *sigh*
(You know Shiva doesn’t even have a daughter anymore?)
Aaaand I learn that, given my slow connection (especially when concurrently downloading a large file), I really ought to reload a page before posting a reply. You can safely ignore what I wrote above. And, consequently, what I’m writing here. Actually, you can probably ignore everything I write without impacting your life significantly one way or the other.
…
Man, that’s a lot more depressing to read than it was to write. Honestly, it was an attempt at being silly.
Actually the death of Stephanie Brown was a ruse to which she behind the scenes went back to her previous identity as Spoiler. Eventually she would become the third Batgirl.
Yes, they brought her back as Spoiler in 2008, four years after they killed her off. The question is, did they really intend, in 2004, for her death to have been faked, with that fact hidden from readers for several years?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that DC eventually just had to acknowledge two things. One, that people were really not going to shut up about the sexism of Stephanie’s treatment. Two, that literally nobody liked a comic in which one of Batman’s longest-standing supporting characters, in defiance of her entire previous characterization, allowed a teenage girl who had been tortured with a power drill to die in order to make a point to Batman. Hence the retcon.
formerly Robin III’s girl friend turned crimefighter who operate under the code name SPOILER because her rimary deal was undermining her dads criminal activities (spoiling his plans) was robin IV pur was “put in the freezer” in a rather gruesome way (raped beaten and klled with a drill” this has recently been retconned do to the YEARS of people writing angry letters to DC about it in part because she never got a memorial in the bat cave
she’s alive again and the current Batgirl (or was before flashpoint) and had supposedly faked her death which batman said he had suspected which is why he never made her a memorial (complete BS cop out IMHO)
there is currently a fan made series based on her called Batgirl Spoiled on youtube
Nice to see someone else mentioning the webseries. Episode one of “Batgirl: Spoiled” was truly great fun, and the cast and crew clearly are putting a lot of love into it. I’ll be honest: it was solely B:S that made me even read up on the character….
Willis, I’m still mad at you for the fact that Robin is dating Joe. However, the comic is funny, but now the government agents are at my door for thinking about Stephanie Brown.
I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the reason they pulled the block. The first person who mentioned it brought it up as a joke.
Reminder: Cartoon Network likes to kill good shows. It feasts on the tears of fans. That’s why Johnny Test has six seasons. Direct your vitriol at them.
Fair enough. Generally they just feast on fan tears regardless. Doesn’t matter what show, eventually its time comes and they will kill it in the most infuriating way possible.
Now I think of it, I think they’re already doing what they can to harm the Johnny Test fans. I think they’ve only released like a few DVDs of the show, tops?
The only thing that can harm a Johnny Test fan is the realization that they are, in fact, fans of Johnny Test. It’s like some kind of terrible, AU Dexter’s Laboratory, except the focus is on the gender-bent Dee-Dee where the subtlety has been ripped out and substituted with overly contrived humor and a snarky dog who’s not actually very good at being snarky.
I really hope to be proven wrong in January, but I’d rather play it safe and snag a copy of the episode as it was meant to be shown in case it has been pulled to erase the existence of Ste– uh, You Know Who.
There are only two reasons I can think of to pull an episode for three months: It reveals something that they suddenly decided shouldn’t be revealed yet, or they need to change something. And having finally watched the episode, I can easily pick out a couple of other scenes that someone may have decided should be changed. Still, better safe than sorry.
It wasn’t pulled with the creators’ input, though, and they pulled both shows and the shorts. Meaning it’s not the “something that shouldn’t be revealed yet”, and needing to change something makes no sense because they could’ve just as easily put it in a rerun.
On the other hand, Cartoon Network has been known to do this before for no apparent reason, which is why I think it’s them screwing with the fans.
Just what DC needed, conspiracy theorists!. First, Bruce Timm is in charge of the animated area and he wasnt consulted, this was a Cartoon Network one sided move. Second, DC is just playing favourites, they simply dont care about the fans so no one is trying to screw the fans. Im just tired of people thinking this is about “them” cause no one in DC cares about “you”. Geez, they are not evil just selfish!
Bette Kane can be interpreted either as an original character named after the original Batgirl (Betty Kane) who no longer exists, or as a retcon of Betty Kane that took away her Batgirlhood. In the newest continuity is she Flamebird, or just Kate’s mopey cousin?
She’s still Kate’s cousin, and is currently recovering from a life-threatening injury she took while fighting alongside Batwoman. Not sure whether she’s going to keep the Flamebird name, or continue being a vigilante, but she’s one of a number of reasons why Batwoman is worth reading.
The ONLY Batman book I own is the first volume of No Man’s Land (I’d have others, at least of NML, but they’re pricey.) It’s just… SO GOOD (except the bits with Azreal, ’cause he’s whiny and ninties), but GODDAMNIT DC! IT’S SO GOOD, WHY CAN’T YOU SEE THAT?
Maybe because it’s such an ensemble piece? Maybe because it’s not a thousand pages of characters jerking off to BAtman and seeing him do everything himself. I think, ultimately, that DC is run but a particular type of fanboy these days, one whom is easy to parody and produces nothing but hagiography and flat characters. Oh, and Dan Didio, who drove Reboot into the ground and no, I haven’t forgiven him yet. I never will.
Yep. Oracle was a favorite of mine. She was strong, assertive, sexy smart (only, y’know, without the ability to have sex) and Batman relied on her. The whole Batman relied on her thing should really be ’nuff said.
I disagree on the basis that Barbara Gordon is a bad ass motherfucker in practically any canon. And she just happened to kick a whole lot of ass in the only-iTuned Young Justice episode from this weekend (which INCIDENTALLY had a certain blonde future superheroine in it whose name I cannot say…. but whose episode most certainly inspired this comic).
Really? I’ve read his “Legion of Super-Heroes” comics from the 60′s and ’70s, and some of his New Universe stuff from Marvel, and really enjoyed them. What’s he done lately?
Morrison got to use her (she was in the Batman Inc: Leviathan Strikes one-shot), but the issue was tweaked. She was going to be appearing as Spoiler, and I think there’s even art of this, but they switched to the Batgirl costume and included a disclaimer saying that this issue was pre-new 52.
I don’t know why they don’t just have Babs as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler, and Cass as Black Bat.
+1 Agreement. Gail Simone is not only a fantastic writer, but also a sweet and respectful human being. That, combined with her contributions to the industry, and she has every right in the world to be running that show. And she’d do a much better job than what’s going on now.
I’ve been reading the “Secret Six” trades, and I totally agree that she should be in charge, as she seems to care more about DC’s characters than Didio does.
My rage at what DC has done to Stephanie Brown is immesurable.
The only thing close to it would be the fanboy rage that resulted when the Botcon 2007 set was revealed to contain the remaining Seekers in their ‘classics/generations’ molds.
We shall never forget her DC. No matter what crap you pull.
DC has treated a *lot* of its female characters pretty shittily with this Nu52 crap.
Lois Lane? Never married to Clark.
Wonder Woman? Basically just exists to be Clark’s fuck-buddy now.
Donna Troy? Unless I’m mistaken she seems to have momentarily just disappeared.
Cassie Sandsmark? She was never the most pleasant teenager after Superboy’s death, but now they’ve turned her into an outright bitch.
Starfire? Turned into pretty much just brainless eyecandy.
And those are just off the top of my head. I’m quite sure there’s a lot more that I’m not aware of. (Oh, and in the “guy who got shafted” category: J’onn J’onz. NONE of his time on the Justice League ever existed now, which… makes the Green Lantern book a tad confusing, since it’s the least changed by the whole thing, yet all four male Earth Lanterns served on a League team with J’onn, so… *head asplode*)
I’m enjoying the new take on Wonder Woman. She’s still a BAMF Amazon warrior but with slightly less of the “pole-up-the-bumness” she sometimes gets into.
Did you read beyond Red Hood and The Outlaws #1? I did, it sucked, badly, but if one thing I got clear was that Starfire is not just eye candy like issue #1 makes it seem.
And if not being married is such a terrible thing to do to the Lois Lane character then you must not think highly of the character as it is.
You must not think very highly of the character, if you think taking away her fulfilling marriage to a man she loved very much and who respected and cherished her, just so he can lust after some Amazon booty, isn’t a terrible thing to do to Lois Lane. Before “Nu52″, Lois was considered to be equal to Diana, despite her lack of super-powers. Now she’s just something to be tossed aside for the sake of someone wanting to see the Man of Steel lust after the Woman of Clay(depending on her origin) ? o.O
Not just Jonn – Wally West doesn’t even seem to exist, Bart Allen’s history has been tampered with (despite one of his powers being immunity to reality changes), the JSA doesn’t seem to exist anymore.
As far as I’m concerned, the DCU was destroyed by Flashpoint. No DC comics exist past that point.
Boaster Golds been pretty crapped on too.
Also the whole authority team has lost pretty much their whole history and development merely by existing in the main DCu
As far as Booster is concerned, he’s been getting that since Dan Vado took over whichever JL book he was in, in the ’90s. He pretty much became DC’s whipping boy after that, which Dan Jurgens used as a story point early on in Booster’s second series.
(erm… in the mid-’90s I ran a Booster Gold fansite on AOL’s web “community,” and I still rankle over DC’s treatment of him after Keith Giffen stopped writing the Justice League titles.)
Steph will come back when Didio’s not holding the reigns anymore. Man’s got a mad-on against her. So it may be a while, but one day…
One day…
Does anyone else just want to go hang out in DC limbo with all the cool characters who don’t exist anymore like Stephanie Brown, Wally West, Cassandra Cain, Owen Mercer, Lian Harper, Jesse James, Ted Kord…
You know, I actually was thinking of doing a Steph Brown fan fic that would start out with her continueing on as if the reboot never happened, but slowly morphing into an examination of what it truely means for a charater to be retconned out of existance. … Yeah, I’d be the next Grant Morrison if I could actually write. XD
Funny thing is, I was actually going to have it be a plot point before that she didn’t exist in any other universe. Don’t ya love irony? XD
You wouldn’t be the first, but given that you came up with the idea without the knowledge that Alan Moore had already done the exact same concept with ‘Supreme’ back in 1998 is impressive in and of itself.
Didio seems to have a mad-on against ALL of DC’s interesting characters that predate him being in charge. His decisions are a big part of the reason I don’t read DC comics anymore (except the “Secret Six” trades, which I’ve been checking out at the library).
I didn’t know who Brown was until a quick wikipedia search. For those who don’t know, Carlie Cooper was supposed to be the new Mary Jane for Spiderman after the horrendous One More Day. As far as I can tell, nobody likes Cooper. At all and wishes Mary Jane would return to prominence.
I like Cooper, she is a fun character, and Im hopeful Dan Slott keeps her around. I also know quite a few people that like her, one that even prefers her over MJ!
Wasn’t one of the big issues with Carlie Cooper that she was named after Joe Quesada’s daughter, and thus all the fans were pissed that they were getting what they felt to be a mary-sue character or something?
Funny thing about Carlie (Spider-Man SPOILERS ahoy):
Right as she had won and she was officially Peter’s boyfriend… she breaks up with him, Peter has a series of significant teamups with Mary Jane (including superheroic and personal), and MJ says that she loves Pete when he can’t hear her. The Empire (of good Spidey writers) striking back? Well… maybe. I fear that the terror behind the throne noticed this trend and was dismayed. Because they just announced two horrifying things:
1) Another non-Peter Parker Spider-Man… apparently as the main one and not a spin-off book or alt continuity. Because the Clone Saga was SO GREAT the first time, amirite??
2) This new Spidey will be hooking up with MJ? I dunno, the pic they have looks like he’s assaulting her more than she’s into it.
RAGE! RAAAAGE! Please, no more clones. The clones drove me away for 16 years. I’m reading Scarlet Spider now and the only reason I didn’t drop it after issue one is the fact that they geographically distanced him from Peter. Now that they aren’t competing for the same life and there’s no more myopic, sad bastard you stole _____ from me, I can enjoy Peter Parker under a darker set of life circumstances. I could handle a 616 Miles Morales (although it would ruin what I believe to be a good thing in Ultimate) better than another clone.
So far I feel that Slott has put the best polish on the turd that he was handed from Quesada. That doesn’t mean that I think Slott is perfect. I’m still not sure what Alpha is for. I’ll stop before I let my fan-on explode. Just please, please don’t bullet through time my favorite character.
She kind of was, actually. The point of her character was to have a sort of C-list no name hero that could be put through all of the ‘very special episodes’ of Tim Drake’s Robin series without damaging the Robin persona’s marketability. So she got to deal with drug problems & parental neglect & relationship abuse & teen pregnancy. It was actually kind of ridiculous how much crap she was put through. And while a lot of readers hated her for it, the fact that she went through all this suffering, yet always came back with a determined, positive attitude made her really inspiring to a small but devoted fanbase. A fanbase that EiC Didio came to despise as much as he despised the character they loved.
We haven’t heard the last of Stephanie Brown. She’ll be back. It may not be in Didio’s tenure, but even so.
As a big Tim Drake fan, I liked the idea of Stephanie Brown being Robin. I wasn’t really following the bat books at the time though. So, I never really read the story line.
But Steph? She is awesome. I first read her in Robin’s solo title back in it’s early issues, and she was always fun. Hardcore too, a nice contrast to Tim’s constant planning.
Ok, but to be fair, Venus deserved it. Spoiler was not (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) a character created solely because A) Warner felt Batman comics were too light on ladies, and B) they wanted to throw in a (creepy, semi-incestuous) love interest, with shell-boobies!
You’re kinda forgetting that none of them were related, and it accentuated the rivalry between Leonardo and Raphael. It also supported the whole ‘gender equality’ thing since she was still a strong character among them, even being ballsy enough to do things that the others were afraid of her doing. All in all, she was a very strong character in the series. It’s only because of a change in management (basically) that she was literally removed and never spoken of again. It’s actually a rule from what I hear, to never talk about her.
I dunno, I never felt like Venus supported gender equality. She was “the chick.” Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines, Raphael is cool but rude, Michelangelo is a party dude, and Venus has ovaries!
It always seemed a wee bit telling that she was named after a work of art rather than a master.
My point is, adding one tough chick into a group of guys isn’t always as neat a solution as all that–usually it just underscores a different kind of sexism.
Imagine if Boba Fett was ONLY in the Star Wars Holiday Special instead of merely first appearing there. That’s Venus’ situation: in what is easily the worst Turtles TV show out of all them… and only there. Thus, you don’t see people crowing for the idea of “bring back stuff from the only Turtles TV show to immediately flop!”
1) The character ONLY EXISTED because they felt the series didn’t have enough women (and the franchise’s existing female characters weren’t good enough). That’s not “gender quality,” that’s “hanging a lantern on our sexism by tossing in a token female.”
2) No, I DIDN’T forget that they stated the TMNT weren’t really brothers. Because that was one of the major complaints ABOUT the character. And despite over a decade of the TMNT being brothers, they just retconned it out so that Venus could date them and not be creepy. Well, mission failed.
3) All that great characterization you mention? Could it have been attributed any of the other characters? Could it, in fact, have been more in character for one of the other TMNT to behave in that manner? Were the other TMNT acting disturbingly OOC when she was “ballsy” enough to do stuff they wouldn’t? Almost as if the writers were trying to justify her existence? ‘Cuz that’s how I remember it.
Venus was solely the result of executive meddling, and even if the writers made a valiant effort to make her relevant, they did so at the expense of the other heroes. Not that the show was worth the effort anyway.
Willis, I really have to say, today’s comic is just genius comedy. I’m not talking about the subject matter, which I’m only faintly acquainted with. I just mean the execution. Starting off with a sappy “happy family” moral, swerving into funny pop culture geek territory, and then ending with an abrupt appearance of wacky over-the-top surrealism.
Look, as I’ve seen convincingly argued, there’s just no room for Steph yet. I mean, really, you know hard it would be to find a story and a role for a hard-luck teenage vigilante who never gives up, is a sidekick to sidekicks, has a supervillain dad, and a cult fanbase dating back to the mid-90s? It’s just IMPOSSIBLE.
Next you’ll be suggesting there could have been a good Static Shock comic!
The thing is, Steph got suddenly pulled from Smallville, season 11 (I think). I’ve summited a link already, but it waiting moderation. Steph also WAS a background abductee in what was supposed to be Saturday’s episode of YJ (link submitted requires moderation), we know this thanks to iTunes leaking the episode (it’s been pulled since, but I’ve seen it at least & it might be on YouTube).
Also, I’ve no way to verify this, but I’d heard that a issue of some comic was pulled, just before it went to print, because it was to include Stephanie.
I don’t see how there’s any room for a title about a Batman character on the stands. Those never do well. We need to save space for QUALITY books, like Grifter, Men of War, Red Lanterns, and Hawk Man by Rob Liefeld.
(Note, while this post is pure satire, realize DC editorial ACTUALLY felt this way and spent good money forwarding these beliefs onto the marketplace.)
In my little world Steph and Spider-Girl ( May Parker of the MC2 univwrse) are sitting at a table in a little coffeehoushe sipping lattes and occasionally checking their watches to see if Dan D and Joe Q’s time in charge is over.
And yea I know SG had a much longer run in terms of comic issues but it’s been made pretry clear the Joe Q hates her as much as DD does Steph.
like that HMRC4EVR, I like it a lot. Steph and May deserved a heck of a lot better then they’ve got from their respective companies. What gets me about May is that the only reason anyone even remembered who Araña was for her to become the new Spider-Girl was because DeFalco used her as a supporting character in May’s book. Otherwise I’m betting she’s have been killed off along with Mattie Franklin.
As for young Justice, I know all to well that it was pulled — though oddly, it’s still supposedly airing on the Spanish language version of Cartoon Network. But since they also pulled Green Lantern, it didn’t occur to me it had anything to do with Stephanie Brown. Considering how long Cartoon Network was sitting on these episodes until a few weeks ago, DC had plenty of time to request her removal before now.
See, I didn’t know anything about DC’s Spoiler wipe before you posted this comic, because I’ve been avoiding DC since the beginning of the New 52 reboot (with the exception of the Beyond comics . . . because Beyond is F@#$ING AWESOME). Because I have seen NOTHING about this reboot that I liked. Hate every last bit of it. Hate the rampant sexism, hate the executive meddling, hate the disregarding of 70+ years of history, hate the re-characterization, all of it. And yes, I know some of the books have been stellar lately, well written with excellent art. Don’t care, they could have beautiful, well-written books WITHOUT burying their entire history. And this is just another example. Screw DC.
“To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I’ll be
happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they’re
coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!”
I hate to be a pessimist, but I figure Didio’s around for the long haul. We’ll likely see his tenure end around the same time I hope Hasbro drops this ‘Aligned Continuity’ malarkey, sometime in 2020.
But you see, by then the guy or gal who replaces Didio will have grown up reading comics in the late nineties and early aughts. So they’ll love all their “real” heroes, like Wally West and Donna Troy and Cassandra Cain and want to bring them back, likely at the expense of any new characters or any new developments that have taken place with old characters that happened between now and then, creating a new generation of bitter, disillusioned young fans to complain about it on the hypernet.
Or, hopefully, we’ll get someone in charge who remembers all the fanrage and avoids it by bringing back old favorites without sidelining the originals. Don’t forget, Didio didn’t grow up with the internet.
That’s what’s sad about this the Didio regime has gone on for close to a decade and in spite of all his creative incompetence he continues to go on and on like an Energizer bunny….One of the worst periods in DC Comics history since before the start of the Silver age and the late 1970′s-early 80′s when DC was practically in the crapper creatively.
I don’t think anyone else has posted this, as it just went up on Newsarama a little while ago, but the timing was perfect considering the comic. This is Dan Didio’s official statement regarding Stephanie Brown… Take it as you will…
Well, that explains everything. … Except why Steph was taken out of the Smallville comic, and why requests to even use her in a story were all shot down, even when coming from such high profile writers as Scott Snyder, Gail Simone, and Grant fricken Morrison.
Yeah, I think DiDio really perfected the art of saying *precisely nothing* in that entire thing. Basically, it amounted to: “Characters should appear when it is a good idea, in-story, for them to appear, and we don’t want to flood the reader with too many new characters.” Well, this still leaves the Smallville question wide open, as you said – it was, for all intents and purposes, an entirely new character anyway, does it matter what her name and hair color are? And it does *nothing* to address these specific characters (IE, why are Wally and Donna erased but not Dick and Cassie, why Wally instead of Bart, etc.).
“”You know, me and Stephanie, we go way back. The story with Stephanie Brown goes, they came to me as Executive Editor with the “War Games” story, and said we’re going to kill Stephanie Brown. I knew Stephanie Brown for who she was, and said, ‘I don’t know, if this is going to be the big ending to your story it doesn’t feel big enough at the time, because the character wasn’t strong enough yet.’ So I said, ‘Why don’t we make her Robin for a short period of time, build some interest in her, and then we kill her!’”
Oh wow. I’ve never actually sought out any explanations for the creative process of killing off characters. I always kind of assumed that this type of thinking was in place, but I never expected them to admit it.
That’s not what’s going on though. It wasn’t, “Oh, let’s kill off this character who happens to be popular”, it was “Let’s make this character popular so it will hurt when we kill her off.
Yeah, but the thing is Joss Whedon does it because he thinks it’ll be emotionally important to the story and/or character development, and that it serves a greater purpose over all. Think about the characters Joss Whedon has killed off. Coulson, Wash, Fred, Joyce and Tara were all characters who were the kindest and most noble of characters and who everyone loved. Their deaths held massive impacts on the continuing stories and resonated for the fans on a deeply emotional level…
Stephanie’s death was more for shock value and to get rid of a character who at the time was not as popular she originally was when first introduced or became again after her “resurrection”. Stephanie got rather badly portrayed soon after she and Tim started dating. I’m not talking about her pregnancy storyline (which I hate never got touched on in the Batgirl series) but her character was turned into something of an annoyance in the Bat-family. She began stalking Robin to try and force his secret identity out of him, despite the fact he used to claim up and down that she was okay with him not telling her because she knew he HAD to keep it a secret. She then became Robin, not because of a sense of justice or greater purpose, but essentially to get back at Tim, who she thought was cheating on her with another girl. And lets not forget for the longest time she had Batman, Robin, Batgirl and Oracle and even Superboy in one story, all telling her she was a failure as a hero and she needed to give it up. They turned her from this really cool and fun character, into the crazy ex-girlfriend of super-heroes. After she died… she kinda got overlooked… A LOT. I mean, she had no trophy in the Batcave, Tim Drake hardly mourned her death (instead fixating more on Superboy and his father), and so on.
The fans were not outraged because of the fact Stephanie died, but HOW she died. She died because she made dumb mistakes and was treated like an failure character. Which wasn’t fair to her. She deserved better. And I think we can all agree, when they brought her back, she got SOOOOO much better.
My….god….I can’t believe…I FINALLY did it….FINALLY…finished ALL of ShortPacked! up to this point….a week and a half of….non-stop….reading…hindered only….by spoilers in the comments…damn you, Willis…damn you…straight to hell…
I think…I’ll start from the beginning…after a little…nap….ugh… *collapses*
(What’s the recommended order for reading the other comics, btw?)
This comic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when you realize that Stephanie is actually MORE famous than the Batgirl who immediately preceded her. (At least, I think. I always hear about how great Stephanie is)
IMO, Cassandra Cain got screwed over much worse. I guess her fanbase wasn’t big or vocal enough, and the writers screwed her over repeatedly, then kicked her out in favor of Spoiler. Which was honestly bewildering, and a little maddening, since Cassandra seemed like the first honestly interesting female character to come along in ages. I tried to get into Stephanie’s Batgirl, but I was amazingly bored after just one issue.
“This comic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when you realize that Stephanie is actually MORE famous than the Batgirl who immediately preceded her. (At least, I think. I always hear about how great Stephanie is)”
I’d like to rephrase. I didn’t mean that to sound so arrogant, like only I have the inside scoop or something. I just meant to say that I don’t understand why Stephanie Brown is missed, and Cassie isn’t. It’s probably because Cassie randomly dropped everything and moved to hong kong for reasons that were never really explained to my satisfaction before flashpoint hit, I guess.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Cass was considered by many to be a badass, both in universe and out, and was never treated as anything less than a true member of the Bat family.
Steph, meanwhile, has been metaphorically been punched in the ovaries since the day she was created.
By the writers, or by the Bat Family itself? Because I’d disagree, either way. In the beginning, Bruce was kind of harsh-he kicked her out of Barbara’s apartment for being careless with her secret identity, and even when she began to earn Batman and Tim’s respect, Dick was kind of a jerk to her.
(Which completely destroyed any affection I had for the character, by the way. How can he ride Cass so hard for being the daughter of a villain, but become such an advocate of Damian? He comes off as kind of a two-faced prick. {No pun intended})
And then there was the one year later debacle, where Cass was suddenly a villain for reasons that were poorly explained at BEST. And then, because they wanted to build Stephanie up, they put Cassandra on a bus. To Hong Kong. If it wasn’t for Red Robin, and Batman Inc, we probably never would have seen her again.
The idea that Stephanie Brown is the only Batgirl that got a crappy deal (I’m not denying that Steph got screwed, only questioning why Cassandra seems all but forgotten at this point) is false.
Okay, I never the Batman comics after a certain point, so I’ve never read one with Stephanie Brown in it. The comments have piqued my interest, but I doubt I’ll go out and get any of them.
What I’m actually curious about is who is Ultra Car’s mom? (I know Joe’s role.)
Who was Stephanie Brown???
Who is Stephanie Brown? Didio and the government don’t want you to know the truth! Fight the power and read something related to the truth! The Brown is out there!
His name was Robert Paulson. Her name was Stephanie Brown.
The first and only female Robin. DC decided to axe her even before Bill Willingham started writing for her. And they killed her by penetrating her with a power drill. For years, there was division within DC about if Brown even was important at all. DiDio would say she was never Robin, while the comics had Batman saying she was Robin. It’s one of the most awkward sexism-in-comics stories out there.
I think the first female Robin was Carrie Kelly. And there’s a third female Robin in Nu52 Huntress, from Earth 2.
Yeah, but Carrie is not in the “main” timeline, so it’s arguable.
nu52 isn’t the real timeline either.
Also Huntress being Robin and Powegirl being Earth 2′s Supergirl just pisses me off immeasurably. It “reduces” the Huntress/Powergirl identities so much, like they’re nothing but poor alternates. Karen owned that identity damnit, and now it’s just a disguise. :p
Yeah . . . how is the New 52 not real?
If you’ve read the Flashpoint crossover you’d know that Pandora re-wrote history and combined three different universes to create the New 52. Really, it isn’t so much the New 52 as it is a Post 52 universe.
I love it and I REALLY hope DC stays with it rather than scrubbing it and bringing back all the convoluted continuity that they were trying to get away from.
If a character looks different, acts different, has a different origin, a different history, and different powers, they’re effectively a completely separate character – regardless of name. Pick any three of the above and they’re still a different character.
This is why the news that “Alan Scott, Green Lantern who has been happily married for thirty years and has grown up kids is now suddenly gay” didn’t faze me – because that wasn’t true. The Alan Scott that I care about was killed off, murdered off-screen literally between panels in the time-changing event called “Flashpoint”.
Flashpoint was the biggest slaughter the DC Universe has ever seen.
I should probably point out that my point about the Alan Scott thing is that an author can do whatever they want with a brand new character that no one has ever seen before – which Nu52 Alan is. He’s an entirely unrelated character to the previous character, save he has the same name and similar powers.
This. I feel exactly the same way about the new Tim Drake.
Apparently there are issues of comics which I need to track down.
Thanks, I haven’t read any DC comics in years and thus unfamiliar with this character which Willis is suggesting that someone(DC?) wants to Retgone her.
As of the latest reboot, she is, at least in-universe. Even before that DC’s treatment of her was pretty bad.
The scary thing too, is that several of DC’s A-list creators working on their top books actually were interested in using her, and were told they couldn’t.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/10/16/the-curse-of-stephanie-brown-continues/
Shades of Quesada’s hate of Peter Parker and Mary-Jane Watson being married…
If you want editors who actually care about characters go to Archie or IDW we won’t have none of that respect stuff here in DC and Marvel town.
She was a minor Gotham hero named Spoiler, and Robin (Tim Drake)’s love interest. After he quit being Robin for a while, she took up the mantle.
She never got much respect, however, either in or out of universe. In order to prove her worth, she tried to enact a mothballed secret plan of Batman’s she found out about, which would basically end all organized crime in Gotham by uniting the gangs under a single crime boss named Matches Malone.
She figured that the reason Batman had come up with this scheme was that Malone worked for him. What she didn’t know that that Matches Malone is Batman. And he had no idea she was trying to execute this crazy scheme, meaning “Matches” didn’t show up to do his part, and a gang war resulted.
Stephanie was “killed” as a result. I put quotes around that, because while the idea was that she DID die at the time (that’s how it was written anyway). But the editors later on decided that she had survived after all, and was in hiding with Leslie Thompkins. That reveal is what this strip is about.
So her tenure as Robin was short, and ended rather badly. Which is a shame, because she was otherwise a pretty cool character.
She also later became Batgirl, with the blessing of both Barbara Gordon and Cassandra Cain.
Yeah, it’s a shame that one only lasted 24 issues. Still probably longer than she was Robin, though.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I know her a lot better as batgirl.
That reveal is not really what this strip is about.
Well, not about, but what it is referencing.
Meaning the one I linked in my original post. It just occurred to me that I should have made it stand out more, it looks like I’m talking about today’s strip, not this (http://www.shortpacked.com/2008/comic/book-7/01-dr-jan-itor/spoilerlives/) one.
It’s referencing more recent events than that.
Well, for now we’ve only got a theory on this, since supposedly the decision to pull Saturday’s YJ came from CN. And it just happens to have Stephanie Brown in it.
Like an episode of Smallville almost had, until it got pulled.
Of course, the episode was released to iTunes, so if there are any changes, it’ll be pretty freaking obvious this was the reason.
Still, the decision to cut the show came through on Wednesday, I think & it isn’t coming back until January. We only know she’s Stephanie Brown thanks to the credits. Why 3 months just to make a little tweak, to the credits?
Because Stephanie Brown had nothing to do with the decision at Cartoon Network. That’s just a fanboy conspiracy theory that assumes entirely too much power on the part of DC editorial.
The Smallville thing is what’s baffling… that’s not even the main DC continuity but she’s being nix’d there too. Actually it’s not baffling at all. This is the same bull as DiDio’s Wally West moratorium to push Barry Allen. Fans Must Like Barbra Gordon, so no alternatives are allowed. *sigh*
(You know Shiva doesn’t even have a daughter anymore?)
Well, not “this strip” as in “the strip with Robin and Ultra Car published in October 2012″, but as in “this strip (at the other end of this link) that was published four years ago“. I think.
Aaaand I learn that, given my slow connection (especially when concurrently downloading a large file), I really ought to reload a page before posting a reply. You can safely ignore what I wrote above. And, consequently, what I’m writing here. Actually, you can probably ignore everything I write without impacting your life significantly one way or the other.
…
Man, that’s a lot more depressing to read than it was to write. Honestly, it was an attempt at being silly.
Actually the death of Stephanie Brown was a ruse to which she behind the scenes went back to her previous identity as Spoiler. Eventually she would become the third Batgirl.
Yes, they brought her back as Spoiler in 2008, four years after they killed her off. The question is, did they really intend, in 2004, for her death to have been faked, with that fact hidden from readers for several years?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that DC eventually just had to acknowledge two things. One, that people were really not going to shut up about the sexism of Stephanie’s treatment. Two, that literally nobody liked a comic in which one of Batman’s longest-standing supporting characters, in defiance of her entire previous characterization, allowed a teenage girl who had been tortured with a power drill to die in order to make a point to Batman. Hence the retcon.
formerly Robin III’s girl friend turned crimefighter who operate under the code name SPOILER because her rimary deal was undermining her dads criminal activities (spoiling his plans) was robin IV pur was “put in the freezer” in a rather gruesome way (raped beaten and klled with a drill” this has recently been retconned do to the YEARS of people writing angry letters to DC about it in part because she never got a memorial in the bat cave
she’s alive again and the current Batgirl (or was before flashpoint) and had supposedly faked her death which batman said he had suspected which is why he never made her a memorial (complete BS cop out IMHO)
there is currently a fan made series based on her called Batgirl Spoiled on youtube
Nice to see someone else mentioning the webseries. Episode one of “Batgirl: Spoiled” was truly great fun, and the cast and crew clearly are putting a lot of love into it. I’ll be honest: it was solely B:S that made me even read up on the character….
I googled her. and some wiki says she’s 5’5″ and 110 pounds. And I’m thinking none of her drawings look like my 14 year old’s build……..
I’ll never forget her. Never!
That almost sounds like a really sexy punishment.
You are into some strange things, my acquaintance.
I laughed, then stopped the minute I remembered this is pretty much the truth.
Come on Robin, a bunch of guys want to scrub you down. Joe will understand.
Which Robin? There’s like 7 if you count this one.
All the Robins.
Bye, Robin. Say hi to DC Nation for us.
I was wondering why my brain was being wiped, luckily I have grown immune. Thank you President Obama.
That tinfoil hat of yours really paid off, didn’t it? You should wear it more often.
I Keep running out, DC keeps trying to get me but I got to fight the power, or complain on the internet.
They’re everywhere, man. So the real question is, if you mention both Stephanie Brown AND Candlejack, wh
WIN for obscurity WIN
JUST LEAVE THE DAMN BEAVERS ALONE YOU CREEP!!!
*cough*Lucy*cough*Amber*cough*
So mentioning Steph gets you abducted. I’m afraid to ask, but what about Cassandra Cain?
Oh uh, well you get sent to the moon. DC can’t stop you but they can send you away.
That gets you “disappeared.”
Released to Elsewhere. Sent to Urinetown. Etc.
Imagine what would’ve happened if she mentioned Wally West…
Willis, I’m still mad at you for the fact that Robin is dating Joe. However, the comic is funny, but now the government agents are at my door for thinking about Stephanie Brown.
NEVER FORGET.
FORGET WHAT?
Dammit, they got Mongoose too!
*Wave the Waffle flag*
Which reminds me, I probably ought to download that episode, because I doubt it’ll be the same when it finally shows up on CN in January…
I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the reason they pulled the block. The first person who mentioned it brought it up as a joke.
Reminder: Cartoon Network likes to kill good shows. It feasts on the tears of fans. That’s why Johnny Test has six seasons. Direct your vitriol at them.
On this, anyway. The reboot is messed up.
But Johnny Test is actually pretty fun. So perhaps you should say, they feast on the tears of fans of serious shows.
Fair enough. Generally they just feast on fan tears regardless. Doesn’t matter what show, eventually its time comes and they will kill it in the most infuriating way possible.
Now I think of it, I think they’re already doing what they can to harm the Johnny Test fans. I think they’ve only released like a few DVDs of the show, tops?
The only thing that can harm a Johnny Test fan is the realization that they are, in fact, fans of Johnny Test. It’s like some kind of terrible, AU Dexter’s Laboratory, except the focus is on the gender-bent Dee-Dee where the subtlety has been ripped out and substituted with overly contrived humor and a snarky dog who’s not actually very good at being snarky.
I really hope to be proven wrong in January, but I’d rather play it safe and snag a copy of the episode as it was meant to be shown in case it has been pulled to erase the existence of Ste– uh, You Know Who.
Let me set your mind at ease, then. There is absolutely no possible way that Dan Didio can impact Cartoon Network’s decisions. None, whatsoever.
There are only two reasons I can think of to pull an episode for three months: It reveals something that they suddenly decided shouldn’t be revealed yet, or they need to change something. And having finally watched the episode, I can easily pick out a couple of other scenes that someone may have decided should be changed. Still, better safe than sorry.
It wasn’t pulled with the creators’ input, though, and they pulled both shows and the shorts. Meaning it’s not the “something that shouldn’t be revealed yet”, and needing to change something makes no sense because they could’ve just as easily put it in a rerun.
On the other hand, Cartoon Network has been known to do this before for no apparent reason, which is why I think it’s them screwing with the fans.
Just what DC needed, conspiracy theorists!. First, Bruce Timm is in charge of the animated area and he wasnt consulted, this was a Cartoon Network one sided move. Second, DC is just playing favourites, they simply dont care about the fans so no one is trying to screw the fans. Im just tired of people thinking this is about “them” cause no one in DC cares about “you”. Geez, they are not evil just selfish!
The humanoid is confused here.
I feel broadly similar about Cassandra Cain and Oracle.
F*** you, DC. F*** you.
Note how they’ve managed to delete *every single Batgirl* other than Barbara Gordon.
Even the Helena Bertinelli Huntress, who was only Batgirl part-time for a few months during No Man’s Land.
Wasn’t Brette Kane (the origonal Bat-Girl) a supporting character in Batwoman’s book?
She hasn’t been Bat-Giirl since Crisis on Inifinite Earths – since then her superhero identity has been Flamebird.
Bette Kane can be interpreted either as an original character named after the original Batgirl (Betty Kane) who no longer exists, or as a retcon of Betty Kane that took away her Batgirlhood. In the newest continuity is she Flamebird, or just Kate’s mopey cousin?
She’s still Kate’s cousin, and is currently recovering from a life-threatening injury she took while fighting alongside Batwoman. Not sure whether she’s going to keep the Flamebird name, or continue being a vigilante, but she’s one of a number of reasons why Batwoman is worth reading.
The ONLY Batman book I own is the first volume of No Man’s Land (I’d have others, at least of NML, but they’re pricey.) It’s just… SO GOOD (except the bits with Azreal, ’cause he’s whiny and ninties), but GODDAMNIT DC! IT’S SO GOOD, WHY CAN’T YOU SEE THAT?
Maybe because it’s such an ensemble piece? Maybe because it’s not a thousand pages of characters jerking off to BAtman and seeing him do everything himself. I think, ultimately, that DC is run but a particular type of fanboy these days, one whom is easy to parody and produces nothing but hagiography and flat characters. Oh, and Dan Didio, who drove Reboot into the ground and no, I haven’t forgiven him yet. I never will.
Two words: Beast Machines.
DiDio can go die someplace.
Yep. Oracle was a favorite of mine. She was strong, assertive, sexy smart (only, y’know, without the ability to have sex) and Batman relied on her. The whole Batman relied on her thing should really be ’nuff said.
I would think fangirls would be happier that DC retconned the best shot at Tim Drake being a heterosexual out of existence.
(How did DC manage to ruin every single Batgirl simultaneously? Surely one of them should have come out on top.)
I don’t think Barbara’s ruined. Though losing Oracle is regrettable, Batgirl is currently an amazing book.
I disagree on the basis that Bette Kane is the one true Batgirl.
I disagree on the basis that Barbara Gordon is a bad ass motherfucker in practically any canon. And she just happened to kick a whole lot of ass in the only-iTuned Young Justice episode from this weekend (which INCIDENTALLY had a certain blonde future superheroine in it whose name I cannot say…. but whose episode most certainly inspired this comic).
The comic had a raid on a Reach base?
Man, I really need to read Jamie’s series…
She might still return one day. She DID came back from the dead after all.
Gail Simone is trying her damnedest. Unfortunately, she’s not the boss.
(She should be the boss.)
Yes. She should. I propose a cage match between her and Didio. Winner gets DC, loser gets stuffed in a fridge.
I see what you did there…
Can I pass her a gun when the referee is not looking?
She absolutely should be, yes.
Truer words have never been spoken. Gail Simone for DC Editor-in-Chief!!!
I support this plan.
I say she should join forces with Jim Shooter and take over DC in Bloody Coup!
Didio must pay for That crime aginst humanity called Countdown!!
Jim Shooter would be a cure worse than the disease.
Really? I’ve read his “Legion of Super-Heroes” comics from the 60′s and ’70s, and some of his New Universe stuff from Marvel, and really enjoyed them. What’s he done lately?
She should totally be the boss.
Not just Gail. Snyder and Morrison have both tried to use her and Cass and they’ve all been shot down. It’s insane.
They denyed Morrison on a batman idea??
This is insanity!!
Morrison got to use her (she was in the Batman Inc: Leviathan Strikes one-shot), but the issue was tweaked. She was going to be appearing as Spoiler, and I think there’s even art of this, but they switched to the Batgirl costume and included a disclaimer saying that this issue was pre-new 52.
I don’t know why they don’t just have Babs as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler, and Cass as Black Bat.
How dare you bring logic and reasonable solution to this problem!
That is why you’ll never work for the mainstream comics!
+1 Agreement. Gail Simone is not only a fantastic writer, but also a sweet and respectful human being. That, combined with her contributions to the industry, and she has every right in the world to be running that show. And she’d do a much better job than what’s going on now.
I’ve been reading the “Secret Six” trades, and I totally agree that she should be in charge, as she seems to care more about DC’s characters than Didio does.
My rage at what DC has done to Stephanie Brown is immesurable.
The only thing close to it would be the fanboy rage that resulted when the Botcon 2007 set was revealed to contain the remaining Seekers in their ‘classics/generations’ molds.
We shall never forget her DC. No matter what crap you pull.
I went through the same thing a few years back when they decided to ruin Bart Allen for shits and giggles. Still haven’t fully forgiven them for that.
What are you talking about, Bart Allen was never seen again after Young Justice ended
DC has treated a *lot* of its female characters pretty shittily with this Nu52 crap.
Lois Lane? Never married to Clark.
Wonder Woman? Basically just exists to be Clark’s fuck-buddy now.
Donna Troy? Unless I’m mistaken she seems to have momentarily just disappeared.
Cassie Sandsmark? She was never the most pleasant teenager after Superboy’s death, but now they’ve turned her into an outright bitch.
Starfire? Turned into pretty much just brainless eyecandy.
And those are just off the top of my head. I’m quite sure there’s a lot more that I’m not aware of. (Oh, and in the “guy who got shafted” category: J’onn J’onz. NONE of his time on the Justice League ever existed now, which… makes the Green Lantern book a tad confusing, since it’s the least changed by the whole thing, yet all four male Earth Lanterns served on a League team with J’onn, so… *head asplode*)
Saying Wonder Woman’s only Clark’s love interest now ignores her (by all reports) very nice comic book series.
I’m enjoying the new take on Wonder Woman. She’s still a BAMF Amazon warrior but with slightly less of the “pole-up-the-bumness” she sometimes gets into.
I found her to be rather boring in her own book (only read to issue six). She has cool fights, but I don’t feel I know her as a character.
Did you read beyond Red Hood and The Outlaws #1? I did, it sucked, badly, but if one thing I got clear was that Starfire is not just eye candy like issue #1 makes it seem.
And if not being married is such a terrible thing to do to the Lois Lane character then you must not think highly of the character as it is.
You must not think very highly of the character, if you think taking away her fulfilling marriage to a man she loved very much and who respected and cherished her, just so he can lust after some Amazon booty, isn’t a terrible thing to do to Lois Lane. Before “Nu52″, Lois was considered to be equal to Diana, despite her lack of super-powers. Now she’s just something to be tossed aside for the sake of someone wanting to see the Man of Steel lust after the Woman of Clay(depending on her origin) ? o.O
Not just Jonn – Wally West doesn’t even seem to exist, Bart Allen’s history has been tampered with (despite one of his powers being immunity to reality changes), the JSA doesn’t seem to exist anymore.
As far as I’m concerned, the DCU was destroyed by Flashpoint. No DC comics exist past that point.
Boaster Golds been pretty crapped on too.
Also the whole authority team has lost pretty much their whole history and development merely by existing in the main DCu
As far as Booster is concerned, he’s been getting that since Dan Vado took over whichever JL book he was in, in the ’90s. He pretty much became DC’s whipping boy after that, which Dan Jurgens used as a story point early on in Booster’s second series.
(erm… in the mid-’90s I ran a Booster Gold fansite on AOL’s web “community,” and I still rankle over DC’s treatment of him after Keith Giffen stopped writing the Justice League titles.)
Wow, some people just really don’t like Spoilers, do they?
I see what you did there.
Cool story bro.
At least it’s not Etta Candy.
I’ve been reading classic Golden Age Wonder Woman comics recently.
I weep for what has become the character of Etta Candy.
Didn’t saw it coming at the end, good one.
Im holding onto a lot of hope that you are just joking and don’t really believe there is a conspiracy though.
I mostly think it would be hilarious if there were. I like when reality is a cartoon.
Steph will come back when Didio’s not holding the reigns anymore. Man’s got a mad-on against her. So it may be a while, but one day…
One day…
Does anyone else just want to go hang out in DC limbo with all the cool characters who don’t exist anymore like Stephanie Brown, Wally West, Cassandra Cain, Owen Mercer, Lian Harper, Jesse James, Ted Kord…
You know, I actually was thinking of doing a Steph Brown fan fic that would start out with her continueing on as if the reboot never happened, but slowly morphing into an examination of what it truely means for a charater to be retconned out of existance. … Yeah, I’d be the next Grant Morrison if I could actually write. XD
Funny thing is, I was actually going to have it be a plot point before that she didn’t exist in any other universe. Don’t ya love irony? XD
So she’d get to be aware of this while it’s happening, fourth wall and all? I would totally read that.
…That actually sounds interesting. I’d read it.
google casstoons. A little crude, but might be to your liking.
I’ve seen it. How do you think I found out about the Batgirl series in the first place?
And it’s not exactly the same thing I’m planing.
You wouldn’t be the first, but given that you came up with the idea without the knowledge that Alan Moore had already done the exact same concept with ‘Supreme’ back in 1998 is impressive in and of itself.
Really? Guess there really is nothing new under the sun. Also, I really need to read Supreme one of these days.
… Mad-on is now my new favorite phrase.
I’m glad that someone else saw the really important part of that message.
Yay! J has a Glad-on for Mad-on!
Mad-ons are an integral part of ragefucks.
Didio seems to have a mad-on against ALL of DC’s interesting characters that predate him being in charge. His decisions are a big part of the reason I don’t read DC comics anymore (except the “Secret Six” trades, which I’ve been checking out at the library).
Oh Ms. Brown, how I miss you so.
Funny how this strip came along right after I’d been watching a DVD of On Her Majesty’s Secret Service I just bought.
I thought this was Carlie Cooper for a second.
I didn’t know who Brown was until a quick wikipedia search. For those who don’t know, Carlie Cooper was supposed to be the new Mary Jane for Spiderman after the horrendous One More Day. As far as I can tell, nobody likes Cooper. At all and wishes Mary Jane would return to prominence.
I like Cooper, she is a fun character, and Im hopeful Dan Slott keeps her around. I also know quite a few people that like her, one that even prefers her over MJ!
Wasn’t one of the big issues with Carlie Cooper that she was named after Joe Quesada’s daughter, and thus all the fans were pissed that they were getting what they felt to be a mary-sue character or something?
Funny thing about Carlie (Spider-Man SPOILERS ahoy):
Right as she had won and she was officially Peter’s boyfriend… she breaks up with him, Peter has a series of significant teamups with Mary Jane (including superheroic and personal), and MJ says that she loves Pete when he can’t hear her. The Empire (of good Spidey writers) striking back? Well… maybe. I fear that the terror behind the throne noticed this trend and was dismayed. Because they just announced two horrifying things:
1) Another non-Peter Parker Spider-Man… apparently as the main one and not a spin-off book or alt continuity. Because the Clone Saga was SO GREAT the first time, amirite??
2) This new Spidey will be hooking up with MJ? I dunno, the pic they have looks like he’s assaulting her more than she’s into it.
It’s very bothersome, all things told.
She was Peter’s girlfriend (or Peter was her boyfriend). I somehow split that down the middle…
RAGE! RAAAAGE! Please, no more clones. The clones drove me away for 16 years. I’m reading Scarlet Spider now and the only reason I didn’t drop it after issue one is the fact that they geographically distanced him from Peter. Now that they aren’t competing for the same life and there’s no more myopic, sad bastard you stole _____ from me, I can enjoy Peter Parker under a darker set of life circumstances. I could handle a 616 Miles Morales (although it would ruin what I believe to be a good thing in Ultimate) better than another clone.
So far I feel that Slott has put the best polish on the turd that he was handed from Quesada. That doesn’t mean that I think Slott is perfect. I’m still not sure what Alpha is for. I’ll stop before I let my fan-on explode. Just please, please don’t bullet through time my favorite character.
Did you run across this?
http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2012/07/nightwing-swapped-out-in-smallville/
Or of course, this…
http://yjinvasionofmyheart.tumblr.com/post/33561852088/cant-hold-it-in-must-flail-with-fandom
You know, sometimes it seems like Stephanie Brown was only created so she could be metaphorically punched in the ovaries.
She kind of was, actually. The point of her character was to have a sort of C-list no name hero that could be put through all of the ‘very special episodes’ of Tim Drake’s Robin series without damaging the Robin persona’s marketability. So she got to deal with drug problems & parental neglect & relationship abuse & teen pregnancy. It was actually kind of ridiculous how much crap she was put through. And while a lot of readers hated her for it, the fact that she went through all this suffering, yet always came back with a determined, positive attitude made her really inspiring to a small but devoted fanbase. A fanbase that EiC Didio came to despise as much as he despised the character they loved.
We haven’t heard the last of Stephanie Brown. She’ll be back. It may not be in Didio’s tenure, but even so.
And, oh yeah, thanks for all the concern there U.C. Nice to see you care and
As a big Tim Drake fan, I liked the idea of Stephanie Brown being Robin. I wasn’t really following the bat books at the time though. So, I never really read the story line.
But Steph? She is awesome. I first read her in Robin’s solo title back in it’s early issues, and she was always fun. Hardcore too, a nice contrast to Tim’s constant planning.
They did the same thing to the guy who made ‘Venus’ of Ninja Turtles.
Ok, but to be fair, Venus deserved it. Spoiler was not (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) a character created solely because A) Warner felt Batman comics were too light on ladies, and B) they wanted to throw in a (creepy, semi-incestuous) love interest, with shell-boobies!
You’re kinda forgetting that none of them were related, and it accentuated the rivalry between Leonardo and Raphael. It also supported the whole ‘gender equality’ thing since she was still a strong character among them, even being ballsy enough to do things that the others were afraid of her doing. All in all, she was a very strong character in the series. It’s only because of a change in management (basically) that she was literally removed and never spoken of again. It’s actually a rule from what I hear, to never talk about her.
I dunno, I never felt like Venus supported gender equality. She was “the chick.” Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines, Raphael is cool but rude, Michelangelo is a party dude, and Venus has ovaries!
It always seemed a wee bit telling that she was named after a work of art rather than a master.
My point is, adding one tough chick into a group of guys isn’t always as neat a solution as all that–usually it just underscores a different kind of sexism.
Imagine if Boba Fett was ONLY in the Star Wars Holiday Special instead of merely first appearing there. That’s Venus’ situation: in what is easily the worst Turtles TV show out of all them… and only there. Thus, you don’t see people crowing for the idea of “bring back stuff from the only Turtles TV show to immediately flop!”
Yeah, what Laura just said, that’s my point.
1) The character ONLY EXISTED because they felt the series didn’t have enough women (and the franchise’s existing female characters weren’t good enough). That’s not “gender quality,” that’s “hanging a lantern on our sexism by tossing in a token female.”
2) No, I DIDN’T forget that they stated the TMNT weren’t really brothers. Because that was one of the major complaints ABOUT the character. And despite over a decade of the TMNT being brothers, they just retconned it out so that Venus could date them and not be creepy. Well, mission failed.
3) All that great characterization you mention? Could it have been attributed any of the other characters? Could it, in fact, have been more in character for one of the other TMNT to behave in that manner? Were the other TMNT acting disturbingly OOC when she was “ballsy” enough to do stuff they wouldn’t? Almost as if the writers were trying to justify her existence? ‘Cuz that’s how I remember it.
Venus was solely the result of executive meddling, and even if the writers made a valiant effort to make her relevant, they did so at the expense of the other heroes. Not that the show was worth the effort anyway.
Willis, I really have to say, today’s comic is just genius comedy. I’m not talking about the subject matter, which I’m only faintly acquainted with. I just mean the execution. Starting off with a sappy “happy family” moral, swerving into funny pop culture geek territory, and then ending with an abrupt appearance of wacky over-the-top surrealism.
Look, as I’ve seen convincingly argued, there’s just no room for Steph yet. I mean, really, you know hard it would be to find a story and a role for a hard-luck teenage vigilante who never gives up, is a sidekick to sidekicks, has a supervillain dad, and a cult fanbase dating back to the mid-90s? It’s just IMPOSSIBLE.
Next you’ll be suggesting there could have been a good Static Shock comic!
The thing is, Steph got suddenly pulled from Smallville, season 11 (I think). I’ve summited a link already, but it waiting moderation. Steph also WAS a background abductee in what was supposed to be Saturday’s episode of YJ (link submitted requires moderation), we know this thanks to iTunes leaking the episode (it’s been pulled since, but I’ve seen it at least & it might be on YouTube).
Also, I’ve no way to verify this, but I’d heard that a issue of some comic was pulled, just before it went to print, because it was to include Stephanie.
I feel like you underestimate the things I would do for a good Static Shock comic.
I bought all eight issues of that last Static Shock. What a disapppointment!!
I don’t see how there’s any room for a title about a Batman character on the stands. Those never do well. We need to save space for QUALITY books, like Grifter, Men of War, Red Lanterns, and Hawk Man by Rob Liefeld.
(Note, while this post is pure satire, realize DC editorial ACTUALLY felt this way and spent good money forwarding these beliefs onto the marketplace.)
In my little world Steph and Spider-Girl ( May Parker of the MC2 univwrse) are sitting at a table in a little coffeehoushe sipping lattes and occasionally checking their watches to see if Dan D and Joe Q’s time in charge is over.
And yea I know SG had a much longer run in terms of comic issues but it’s been made pretry clear the Joe Q hates her as much as DD does Steph.
I still think May Parker was a threat Maphisto – its the easiest thread that can be picked up later for fixing that mess.
like that HMRC4EVR, I like it a lot. Steph and May deserved a heck of a lot better then they’ve got from their respective companies. What gets me about May is that the only reason anyone even remembered who Araña was for her to become the new Spider-Girl was because DeFalco used her as a supporting character in May’s book. Otherwise I’m betting she’s have been killed off along with Mattie Franklin.
As for young Justice, I know all to well that it was pulled — though oddly, it’s still supposedly airing on the Spanish language version of Cartoon Network. But since they also pulled Green Lantern, it didn’t occur to me it had anything to do with Stephanie Brown. Considering how long Cartoon Network was sitting on these episodes until a few weeks ago, DC had plenty of time to request her removal before now.
Oh I get it. The joke is that they could never actually catch her. Because of the super speed.
See, I didn’t know anything about DC’s Spoiler wipe before you posted this comic, because I’ve been avoiding DC since the beginning of the New 52 reboot (with the exception of the Beyond comics . . . because Beyond is F@#$ING AWESOME). Because I have seen NOTHING about this reboot that I liked. Hate every last bit of it. Hate the rampant sexism, hate the executive meddling, hate the disregarding of 70+ years of history, hate the re-characterization, all of it. And yes, I know some of the books have been stellar lately, well written with excellent art. Don’t care, they could have beautiful, well-written books WITHOUT burying their entire history. And this is just another example. Screw DC.
Testify!
“because Beyond is F@#$ING AWESOME”
Amen!
Also, YJ comics and I have a softspot for Superman Family Adventures for sheer gofyness.
Basically, anything not in the mainline universe.
“To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I’ll be
happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they’re
coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!”
Are they Detoxing and Scrubing her down for what she said or for bonking Joe?
It’s definitely for what see said. =_= If it was for bonking Joe it would probably be Leslie who would be doing the detoxing.
I hate to be a pessimist, but I figure Didio’s around for the long haul. We’ll likely see his tenure end around the same time I hope Hasbro drops this ‘Aligned Continuity’ malarkey, sometime in 2020.
But you see, by then the guy or gal who replaces Didio will have grown up reading comics in the late nineties and early aughts. So they’ll love all their “real” heroes, like Wally West and Donna Troy and Cassandra Cain and want to bring them back, likely at the expense of any new characters or any new developments that have taken place with old characters that happened between now and then, creating a new generation of bitter, disillusioned young fans to complain about it on the hypernet.
We have entered an endless recursion of fan rage.
Or, hopefully, we’ll get someone in charge who remembers all the fanrage and avoids it by bringing back old favorites without sidelining the originals. Don’t forget, Didio didn’t grow up with the internet.
That’s what’s sad about this the Didio regime has gone on for close to a decade and in spite of all his creative incompetence he continues to go on and on like an Energizer bunny….One of the worst periods in DC Comics history since before the start of the Silver age and the late 1970′s-early 80′s when DC was practically in the crapper creatively.
Stephanie Brown was a horrible character, anyway.
Now Cassandra Kane, that’s a shame.
And from this day forward we will never see Robin Desanto again, except in flashback comics.
I don’t think anyone else has posted this, as it just went up on Newsarama a little while ago, but the timing was perfect considering the comic. This is Dan Didio’s official statement regarding Stephanie Brown… Take it as you will…
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dan-didio-stephanie-brown-full-answer.html
Well, that explains everything. … Except why Steph was taken out of the Smallville comic, and why requests to even use her in a story were all shot down, even when coming from such high profile writers as Scott Snyder, Gail Simone, and Grant fricken Morrison.
Yeah, I think DiDio really perfected the art of saying *precisely nothing* in that entire thing. Basically, it amounted to: “Characters should appear when it is a good idea, in-story, for them to appear, and we don’t want to flood the reader with too many new characters.” Well, this still leaves the Smallville question wide open, as you said – it was, for all intents and purposes, an entirely new character anyway, does it matter what her name and hair color are? And it does *nothing* to address these specific characters (IE, why are Wally and Donna erased but not Dick and Cassie, why Wally instead of Bart, etc.).
Dido responses basically read like they came from a politician.
“”You know, me and Stephanie, we go way back. The story with Stephanie Brown goes, they came to me as Executive Editor with the “War Games” story, and said we’re going to kill Stephanie Brown. I knew Stephanie Brown for who she was, and said, ‘I don’t know, if this is going to be the big ending to your story it doesn’t feel big enough at the time, because the character wasn’t strong enough yet.’ So I said, ‘Why don’t we make her Robin for a short period of time, build some interest in her, and then we kill her!’”
Oh wow. I’ve never actually sought out any explanations for the creative process of killing off characters. I always kind of assumed that this type of thinking was in place, but I never expected them to admit it.
What a very unpleasant man.
“I don’t know if it will actually hurt enough people’s feelings if we just killed her now. Why not get their hopes up first?”
*shrugs* Joss Wheadon does the same thing yet people love him for it.
Killing off characters you have made the audience love does have its uses.
That’s not what’s going on though. It wasn’t, “Oh, let’s kill off this character who happens to be popular”, it was “Let’s make this character popular so it will hurt when we kill her off.
Yeah, but the thing is Joss Whedon does it because he thinks it’ll be emotionally important to the story and/or character development, and that it serves a greater purpose over all. Think about the characters Joss Whedon has killed off. Coulson, Wash, Fred, Joyce and Tara were all characters who were the kindest and most noble of characters and who everyone loved. Their deaths held massive impacts on the continuing stories and resonated for the fans on a deeply emotional level…
Stephanie’s death was more for shock value and to get rid of a character who at the time was not as popular she originally was when first introduced or became again after her “resurrection”. Stephanie got rather badly portrayed soon after she and Tim started dating. I’m not talking about her pregnancy storyline (which I hate never got touched on in the Batgirl series) but her character was turned into something of an annoyance in the Bat-family. She began stalking Robin to try and force his secret identity out of him, despite the fact he used to claim up and down that she was okay with him not telling her because she knew he HAD to keep it a secret. She then became Robin, not because of a sense of justice or greater purpose, but essentially to get back at Tim, who she thought was cheating on her with another girl. And lets not forget for the longest time she had Batman, Robin, Batgirl and Oracle and even Superboy in one story, all telling her she was a failure as a hero and she needed to give it up. They turned her from this really cool and fun character, into the crazy ex-girlfriend of super-heroes. After she died… she kinda got overlooked… A LOT. I mean, she had no trophy in the Batcave, Tim Drake hardly mourned her death (instead fixating more on Superboy and his father), and so on.
The fans were not outraged because of the fact Stephanie died, but HOW she died. She died because she made dumb mistakes and was treated like an failure character. Which wasn’t fair to her. She deserved better. And I think we can all agree, when they brought her back, she got SOOOOO much better.
My….god….I can’t believe…I FINALLY did it….FINALLY…finished ALL of ShortPacked! up to this point….a week and a half of….non-stop….reading…hindered only….by spoilers in the comments…damn you, Willis…damn you…straight to hell…
I think…I’ll start from the beginning…after a little…nap….ugh… *collapses*
(What’s the recommended order for reading the other comics, btw?)
Ahaha.
The CN is going to come cancel your webcomic now. Oh, I mean put it on “hiatus”.
>detox
Oh goddammit, I only just now got it. Subtle, Willis. Very subtle.
I don’t get it. Future commenters, care to fill me in?
It’s a joke about Steph’s alleged “toxic” status at DC.
This comic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when you realize that Stephanie is actually MORE famous than the Batgirl who immediately preceded her. (At least, I think. I always hear about how great Stephanie is)
IMO, Cassandra Cain got screwed over much worse. I guess her fanbase wasn’t big or vocal enough, and the writers screwed her over repeatedly, then kicked her out in favor of Spoiler. Which was honestly bewildering, and a little maddening, since Cassandra seemed like the first honestly interesting female character to come along in ages. I tried to get into Stephanie’s Batgirl, but I was amazingly bored after just one issue.
“This comic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when you realize that Stephanie is actually MORE famous than the Batgirl who immediately preceded her. (At least, I think. I always hear about how great Stephanie is)”
I’d like to rephrase. I didn’t mean that to sound so arrogant, like only I have the inside scoop or something. I just meant to say that I don’t understand why Stephanie Brown is missed, and Cassie isn’t. It’s probably because Cassie randomly dropped everything and moved to hong kong for reasons that were never really explained to my satisfaction before flashpoint hit, I guess.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Cass was considered by many to be a badass, both in universe and out, and was never treated as anything less than a true member of the Bat family.
Steph, meanwhile, has been metaphorically been punched in the ovaries since the day she was created.
By the writers, or by the Bat Family itself? Because I’d disagree, either way. In the beginning, Bruce was kind of harsh-he kicked her out of Barbara’s apartment for being careless with her secret identity, and even when she began to earn Batman and Tim’s respect, Dick was kind of a jerk to her.
(Which completely destroyed any affection I had for the character, by the way. How can he ride Cass so hard for being the daughter of a villain, but become such an advocate of Damian? He comes off as kind of a two-faced prick. {No pun intended})
And then there was the one year later debacle, where Cass was suddenly a villain for reasons that were poorly explained at BEST. And then, because they wanted to build Stephanie up, they put Cassandra on a bus. To Hong Kong. If it wasn’t for Red Robin, and Batman Inc, we probably never would have seen her again.
The idea that Stephanie Brown is the only Batgirl that got a crappy deal (I’m not denying that Steph got screwed, only questioning why Cassandra seems all but forgotten at this point) is false.
Okay, I never the Batman comics after a certain point, so I’ve never read one with Stephanie Brown in it. The comments have piqued my interest, but I doubt I’ll go out and get any of them.
What I’m actually curious about is who is Ultra Car’s mom? (I know Joe’s role.)
Rachel, both in that she was Joe’s significant other at the time and that she aided in the development of Ultra Car.
Okay now I feel like a senile idiot for completely forgetting about her in the prior series.
dat Napoleon XIV reference
♥.