The rejected panel, for reals:
Description: DARE! The Transformers Panel Ultimate: Noted Interweb Celebristars Tom Croom and Joey Snackpants have hosted panels with the voice of Grimlock, sung backup with Stan Bush on a live performance of “The Touch,” and have spoken about Transformers at (literally) dozens of fan conventions in and around Florida. Come join them as they discuss the good and bad of Michael Bay and learn why (without a doubt) Beast Wars sucks.
Tell it like it is, Willis.
Ah, once again I can rest easy, knowing that as I sleep, there are others to confine the plague of stupidity in my place. Good show.
I’m actually rather proud of Ethan- that doesn’t make me a fangirl, does it? Oh hell, I don’t care- bring on the cat ears and homemade t-shirts.
My girlfriend says that they should’ve said Botchcon instead of botfail
she alsip requested that I ;say “getit???”
Yes.
Having them complain using the words “Hasblow” somewhere in the rant would have been the icing on the cake to describe a typical Hasbro toy whiner
Hasblow? That sounds like “has blown” like given someone a blowjob.
That’s actually what the emergency medicine residents around here (Providence) call Hasbro Children’s Hospital. Heh.
Wait, they’re racist against asians?
I wish I could karaoke with a celebrity.
At BotCon, it’s fairly easy. Though not as easy as getting drunk with them. I MEAN THAT NEVER HAPPENS
Yeah that never happens at JoeCon either *cough* Hama *cough*
you chould probley do it with the guy who made toeho but frome i heard he drunk be for the convetion
Are you drunk?
I think he’s been “pre-drinking”.
ZUN? I’m pretty sure he’s never sober.
Isn’t drinking with the guests the standard convention experience?
I mean, if you work cons long enough, it’s bound to happen at least once
http://unconventional.trhonline.com/2010/01/the-real-reason/
Glad you tagged these guys by name; I wet and had a looksy at their blogs, and…wow. Your satire is as razor-sharp as ever, Willis.
Went, too.
This is by far my favorite comic ever.
It’s hilarious to know there are still people out there hating on the Beast Era… arguably one of the strongest parts of G1 continuity.
That is honestly the most inane rejected panel idea that I have ever seen.
Interweb Celebristars? *Noted* Interweb Celebristars even? And I tought there were douces in my fandom…
Best typo ever or best wordplay ever?
Only my hairdresser knows…
I drove Scott McNeil to Walmart once. HAH.
Waaay back in the day, my diabetic friend was having a problem in the hotel hallway with hypoglycemia and like some medical superhero Scott McNeil poped out of his room, and gave her a bag full of orange Juice, beef jerky and cereal bars. We love Scott McNeil forever. For-ev-er.
That’s exactly why I always keep granola bars and whatnot in my bag during DragonCon. Someone always seems to believe that going without food and drinking very little water all day is a GREAT IDEA in the swampy, late-summer Atlanta heat.
Having someone keel over during a forensics panel in the X-Files track was fun. Really.
Wait…whut o.O
No just…whut?!
Celebristars?! That’s 100 times worse than ‘celebutante’ and that word is hard to beat! ‘Interwebs’ is always plural. Its funnier that way. Though I wouldn’t use it while bragging…
That bragging of theirs reminded me (a lot) of Dreamwave’s press releases pimping Pat “The TransMan” Lee. Surely not a company you’d like to keep.
-airfox
I feel like I should make some well-reasoned criticism. But on the other hand…if they think “Beast Wars sucks without a doubt” then it is clear they are idiots.
I mean…not liking Beast Wars? That’s fine, it had it’s flaws. Everything does.
But declaring it like an objective fact? That’s just…foolish and small minded. A bit arrogant, too.
Fans use the internet to slap at each other far too much.
I mention this purely because I would prefer that these guys have nothing to pick at, but instead read the strip and immediately rethink their lives, but I think they mean they hosted a panel with Gregg Berger, rather than doing a panel in the voice of Grimlock. Unless they did both, in which case, please, burn away
Right, but that’s kind of the punchline, isn’t it? “With the voice of Grimlock” could be read either way. This way is funnier and points to the absurdity of their panel pitch.
TBF to them, Beast Wars wasn’t very good.
Which makes the fact that it _was_ better than the Sunbow cartoon much more embarrassing, eh?
He’s called Joey Snackpants? Seriously?
I was gonna comment on that, but then decided…who among us really has room to mock anyone else’s nom de toile?
On the other hand…Joey Snackpants? Seriously?
who among us really has room to mock anyone else’s nom de toile?
My webname is “Derik,” so I have room! HA HA, HIS NAME IS SNACKPANTS!
I think I played EVE with the Snackpants guy for a bit. If it’s the same guy…yeah. If anything, I suspect Willis is being too nice.
Wait. On his blog Mr. Snackpants refers to Grant Morrison as the Michael Bay of comics. What?
Well, Morrison and Bay have some decent ideas but have been known to fail spectacularly in the delivery. But IMHO Morrison is highly over-rated while Bay just likes blowing crap up.
You’ve just never given Grant Morrison the CHANCE to blow anything uo!
Well, all I’ve read of Morrisson’s work has been All-Star Superman… but you know what, I really, really, really like All-Star Superman. So… he’s not all bad.
The thing is, Grant Morrison takes spectacular risks, and sometimes they fail. Michael Bay… pretty much doesn’t take any risks at all, other than being called out by the NAACP.
Basically Morrison is at his best when left to his own devices with free reign.
However, the quality of his work suffers when he writes within the main continuity of DC, where continuity is an issue.
IIRC Joe the Barbarian is supposed to be an extended metaphor for shooting the Mortgage Crisis in the head.
That’s not blowing stuff up, but it’s still pretty awesome.
Cripes.
The only explanation I can think of is they were getting so much flak over the “Beast Wars sucks” thing that they wanted to say something even dumber to draw attention away from it.
Is a celebristar similar to a fucktard? Evidence suggests it is.
I just checked out that Tom Croon guy’s blog, and he said in retort to a non-crazy person’s reply to them:
“1. The 2010 attendance was 3000 attendees based on our combined visual assessment. (Both mine and Joey’s professional backgrounds pertain specifinally to counting people at events.)”
So… instead of relying on hard numbers, evidence or simply asking somebody involved with the convention after the fact, these Tom Croon and Joey Snackpants guys used their mysterious real life work skills to calculate the number of attendees based on looking at the convention centre?
Guys like these give a bad name to those of us who have spent our adult lives running Anime conventions.
There, I said it.
Their job is…taking head counts?
“Specifinally”? Really? I think this guy mixes up his words a lot.
Because poor spelling is KEWL!
*tip of the non-hat to Linkara*
“The Transformers Panel Ultimate”?
Wow. When Pete posted this on the club forums, I thought he was just having a well-deserved joke at these losers’ expense. It’s getting so one can’t tell truth from fiction anymore!
Joey Snackpants would be an awesome super hero name.
(looks at their blogs)
(see they’re fans of Atlas Shrugged and Starship Troopers)
(back away slowly)
It gets worse when you think about it. They claim to be followers of Rand, who was an objectivist who believed the market would always correct — but then complain that BotCon over-charged for everything… but as BotCon was arguably a successful event, the market bore it out as a winner, and their own complaints go against their claimed core economic philosophy.
In other words: They are idiots.
“In other words: They are typical Objectivists.”
Fixed that for you.
^Win.
Caped Crusader, I don’t see the difference. You just retyped Trae Dorn’s last sentence? :S
Since I can’t get to their blog (huzzah for work webfilter!)…
Starship Troopers – the book or the movie that was titled the same but pretty much completely different?
Skeletor! Huzzah!
So much slapping.
There used to be this thing called ignominy where if you ate your own feces no one would talk about it because they didn’t want to talk abut it and it wasn’t worth talking about. Now disgrace and pitiful delusional social malfunction is a public thing to be shared and anti-celebrated.
I blame Gen X. We got beat up too much in school and it made us all hostile and vindictive.
At the first anime convention I went to about eight or so years ago, they had a Transformers panel. Still new to the whole anime thing, we saw Transformers and went to the panel. We left after about 10 minutes. The hosts spent the whole time bashing Beast Wars. I was thinking about that when I was reading today’s strip. Then I saw the panel description. Not sure about the other guy, but I do know that Snackpants was one of the guys running the panel eight years ago.
OR, ignominy is just a fake thing our grandparents invented to make themselves sound morally superior.
…this reply goes one comment up. doh.
You know, with the unusual number of typos and general writing errors in this comments section, I can only assume everyone here is currently getting drunk with a celebrity.
SIR I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW I NEVER DRINK WITH CELERY!
FULL-TIME YEAR-ROUND PROFESSIONAL CONVENTION ATTENDEES, TOPIC/SPEAKER SUGGESTERS, AND TRIVIA PROVIDERS.
I half-expect “webcomic cameo” to go up on their c.v.’s too.
sweet, strawman commentary on some stupid internet drama
awesome
Just because you can regurgitate the term “strawman” doesn’t mean you have a valid argument, anonymous internet person.
If this is not a strawman for some technical reason I may have missed, then which convenient buzzword should I use to express my displeasure when you do comics about how dumb someone else is rather than the standard amusing shenanigans?
I think making fun of dumb people is pretty standard for Shortpacked!. Today’s strip isn’t really a deviation.
The important part being where all of us laughed. A lot. -:D
Sigh…
The Straw man logical fallacy only applies if the actual opinions of the subject are misrepresented. With the exception of Mr. Willis’s possible misinterpretation of the “Voice of Grimlock,” nothing he put in their mouths was anything they didn’t already say themselves somewhere on public record.
Holding up someone for mockery doesn’t make something a “straw man” argument just because you disagree with the person doing the mocking.
From my personal experience, pointing out a strawman seems to cause a discussion to devolve into a debate about the definition of a strawman.
That’s a lot of d-words in that sentence, but I don’t feel like re-writing it. Work was long today.
I’ve seen this across multiple forums, not just this one. I got into a debate on the old forums when I took a mildly unpopular position. It ended up being a huge waste of time.
But yeah, Anon doesn’t have a clue.
I learned about the logical fallacies in college, and then I noticed other people using on them on messageboards. A lot of times I don’t feel like they understand the correct usage of the terms. The strawman fallacy means that Willis incorrectly represents “Joey Snackpants” (holy crap what a name”) and then attacks the misrepresentation. I think from reading their blogs this is an accurate parody of two self important fans who are bitter that they weren’t included.
Have I done a strip about the misuse and/or overuse of the term “strawman”? Every time this happens, I want to do a strip, but then there’s a bit in the back of my mind that tells me I already have.
Hrn.
You did in the middle of the finale of It’s Walky but it was really stupid and crappy which proves you’re a crappy writer.
Make a miniseries out of it.
“The Fallacious Adventures of Strawman! (Updated whenever idiots strike)”
Maybe have Rippy the Razor as a sidekick?
You referenced the term once, in the arc where Robin turned Ethan into an idiot using bumper stickers. Robin made a scarecrow (or, ‘man of straw’) for Ethan to mock.
Dude? I got to sit through this boring excuse for a panel at DragonCon last year. It’s been referred to as “Whiny Fanboys! The Panel!” ever since by the entire group of us who went.
This? Was actually a KIND portrayal of these morons. Seriously. They’re annoying as all get-out.
What is it about Ethan that makes him always the target for these kinds of people? Seriously, is he some form of cosmic magnet for idiots who want to rant about their half-thought opinions?
Maybe he was experimented on by aliens as a baby?
Nahhhhhh.
I think its that Willis just secretly hates Ethan and wants to see his own character unhappy. Seems to make the most sense.
All [good*] writers secretly hate their characters, at least a little – if they didn’t they would be unwilling to subject them to the travails of that evil thing we call “plot”, where things suck for a while, pretty much without exception at the characters’ personal expense.
* notable exception: Mary Sues. ‘Nuff said.
Funny, I always thought Ethan was the author’s stand-in character: allt he whinging Ethan has to listen to feel like they’re drawn from experience.
IIRC Ethan works at the point of maximum entropy in the Universe. (Robin pulled the Drama tag, and now energy is leaking out of the Universe from a home in Shortpacked!‘s stockroom.)
Creatures of despair, wrath, emotional vampires and Hot Wheels Collectors will naturally appear in Ethan’s store by dint of the emotional gradient of the world he inhabits.
He lives at the bottom of the Universe.
Bah– HOLE.
That is possibly the most awesome representation of metaphysical conceptualization I have ever seen.
EVER.
What? Have these people actually seen Beast Wars?
As they themselves admitted….
No. They have not.
Man, they actually ADMITTED that? I mean, I assumed, because they sound like they’re talking out of their ass whenever they bring it up, but I can’t believe they actually host a panel where they deride something they’ve never ever witnessed.
Well, okay, part of me does believe that, but it’s too busy laughing to weigh in.
Wait, Beast Wars sucked? Hold on a second.
*returns*
I just asked myself from 12 years ago how’s Beast Wars, and for some reason, the only thing he said that sucked about it was that he had to wait a week for new episodes.
I didn’t have the heart to tell myself about Beast Machines though. Poor guy doesn’t even know…
…let’s not start a war here — some of us liked Beast Machines.
Let’s just agree that THESE TWO GUYS are morons and stay on the same side here.
I would have liked Beast Machines better if they had not used the established characters like Rattrap, Cheetor and Primal.
The complete turnarounds in their characters seemingly come from the writers of Beast Machines wanting a different cast to tell their story, but being stuck by editorial mandate. So they changed the existing characters to fit their plot.
I think original characters would have been a boon to the wirters and fans alike.
This was one major point that turned me off beast machines, but it still was not bad.
I’m comfortable with calling those two morons.
As for Beast Machines, I’ll admit, I own the DVD set, but I think half my problem was Rattrap had wheels… and… well… that was it. No guns. No bombs. No hadokens of whatever Primal shot out of his chest. I’m sorry, but RT was my fav character from BW, and this felt very much like a punch in the stomach the way he’s treated.
But yeah, those two guys… total morons. GO FORTH INFERNO, and BURN the NON-BELIEVERS!
I always felt that Rattrap’s development in Beast Machines was what made it interesting.
Here’s this war veteran, one of the (if not THE) oldest of the group, who is now being patronized by CHEETOR of all characters. He’s lived his life with a gun in hand, and he’s now lost his weapons and has to re-adapt to his situation. Rattrap has to come to term with these changes, and redefine himself.
It may not be nice to the character — but I don’t watch shows because good things happen to characters I like. I watch them to see characters I like overcome conflicts.
But that’s just my interpretation of it…
I never said he didn’t grow from the experience, but seriously, it felt like half the reason what they did to RT was just to hamstring him so Cheetor could take the #2 spot in the chain of command, in something similar to Hotrod.
And that just fragments my hard drive. I know Rattrap was still effective at being sneaky and what not, but I felt it was just their way of pushing RT out of the way for Cheetor. Seriously, he’s supposed to be in charge when the energon hits the fan? Uuuuggghh….
Wow. People STILL bitch about Beast Wars? I guess there’ll always be those who can’t handle change, even change that happened more than 10 years ago.
I know! It’s like they’re from 1997!
It’s more like they’re TRAPPED in 1997.
I’d be astonished to hear any reason someone can give why Beast Wars (as compared to G1) sucks beyond “I don’t like change.”
The show might not be someone’s cup of tea, and… fair enough. But compared to G1? I would think the most strident G1 fan could acknowledge that just in terms of quality, comparing Mainframe’s talent to the stiff, choppy, error-riddled insanity that was the original cartoon is like comparing a high-end steak house to the half-eaten burger patty a crack addict fishes out of the dumpster behind a McDonalds.
A statement like, “I’m not into Beast Wars, but man I wish Mainframe had done G1″ I would get. Or I would even get arguing something like, say, Beast Wars vs. Animated. (I don’t even know what side I’d take in that fight.) But G1 is just not a well-made show, by any objective standard. The only thing Beast Wars has to do to surpass it was to be halfway competently made.
DUDE, I’m in a web comic!?! BONUS.
Yes, I have seen Beast Wars… and it sucked.
And I like BotchCon much better, describes the experience 10x more. Thanks fittogetfreaky.
Now that we have you here, I think it would be super hilarious to hear why you think Beast Wars sucked.
Explain why Beast Wars sucks online? That’s one of the key elements of the panel! We can never put it to print.
So you got nothing.
We’ve got plenty. Come to a panel if you’re ever at a con where we’re appearing. At each one, we’ve challenged folks to change our minds regarding BW. We present a pretty solid argument, though.
People tend to forget that Joey and I ARE Transformers fans… beyond just G1. We host the panel (and get invited to do so at many events) for fun and to meet other fans.
No, you’re just continuing to bullshit me. You’ve got nothing. Nothing of real substance, anyway. If offering even a rough outline of your thoughts online would spoil your whole panel, then it’s not much of a panel, is it?
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
If you’ve got plenty, surely you can post SOME to make some semblance of a valid argument beyond “Beast Wars sucks and we won’t tell you why unless you shell out money to attend our panel”.
(What is this, Scientology?)
Who cares WHY they don’t like the show? They’ve proven they’re jackasses with every word that’s come from them.
It’s not going to be an interesting or informed opinion. It’s just going to be more TRUKK NOT MUNKEY and some GEEWUNy stuff we’ve heard before, and no one is going to be persuaded to think that the show they’ve loved for fifteen years is anything less than they thought before.
Sure, baiting them for the opinion is fun — because there’s nothing more entertaining than watching a jackass make a bigger fool out of himself — but mostly I think we’ve lost focus.
These are people worthy of mockery, not worthy of engagement.
The very concept of Beast Wars is terrible. I’m sorry you can’t see that.
Transformers are robots in disguise. Their alt-modes must serve some purpose. Either disguise in an alien environment, or improved aerodynamics or something. On a prehistoric world with no other sentient beings, transforming into a collection of animals that didn’t even live at the same time period, colored unrealisticaly, and bristling with weaponry fails on so many levels. Any creature with a reasonable intellect can tell that these things aren’t real “beasts” — but there aren’t any intelligent natives around to notice! There is _no_ reason for them to have beast modes. It fails the basic conceit of the entire Transformers line.
I don’t know if that has anything to do with the arguments raised people you so hypocritically mock in your strip, Willis, but that is the fundamental reason why Beast Wars is a terrible show.
Wheeljack transforms into a race car with specific deco of which there’s just one of in the entire world. Same as Smokescreen. Same as Mirage. They are all based on specific one-of-a-kind vehicles.
Sideswipe and Sunstreaker transform into very conspicuous sports cars. Red Alert is that same sports car, but now also a Fire Chief vehicle. Really? A Lambourghini Fire Chief vehicle? Who is going to not blink when they see that?
Skids transforms into a vehicle not sold in the United States.
Prowl is a Datzun police car… with Japanese markings.
Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp have deco that wouldn’t fool anybody.
The Dinobots are giant mechanical dinosaurs.
Jetfire is a Veritech.
Transformers are Robots in Disguise, yes. They are robots who disguise themselves as other things. That’s what that means. They are things that are not robots that are secretly actually robots. The extreme to which you demand they adhere to this conceit rules out 95% of Transformers, including Generation 1. Mirage isn’t a disguise! He’s a friggin’ F-1 racer! He’s gonna be driving down the street like that? And he’s followed by a bunch of rally-decoed European race cars that aren’t street legal?
Yeah, uh, I’d take a cheetah in prehistoric Africa over that any day. And, woo, welcome to 1997. I remember these arguments back then! Y’know, when folks would take for granted all the ridiculously stupid things from their childhood, give it a free pass, and then make up all these arbitrary rules that are specifically designed to exclude anything new from legitimacy, not realizing their hypocrisy.
Good times.
Your avatar is crappy derivative anime bullshit.
There, I explained why I hate you avatar online. OH NOS, THERE GOES MAH CONVENTION PANLEZ. WUT SHALLZ AH DO?
If I could directly respond to Detour, I would say, “Pretty Much”.
Conventions don’t matter dude.
I can safely guarantee NOBODY is going to an anime or other nerd convention to hear you two losers talk about how bad you think Beast Wars is.
And if you are insane enough to think it will magically cost you money if you dare say so, you must be the biggest idiots in fandom.
(And as the Fandom!Secrets thread on Something Awful has shown, fandom be trippin balls.)
So you two are either trolls who think you are funny with hating a cartoon show from the mid 90s (that in fact pretty much saved or brought back Transformers. No Beast Wars? No any of what we have gotten since!), or complete retards on an amazing level.
So which is it?
Or do you only put it at cons because the handful of people who give a rat’s ass enough to go to your panel are gonna get ganged up on by you two anyhow and thus wouldn’t get a word in edgewise while posting your stuff online means people can actually read it, counter it with proof, AND hold you accountable?
I was at the same con our august comicy host was last weekend. Out of myself and the 3 friends there? None of us went to a single panel the entire weekend. (I may have gone to Willis’ but I was too busy playing an RPG event to go.)
Its a mighty big regional con. The waiting line for the masquerade was a good 200+ people easily. (I have photographic evidence.)
Nobody goes to these things for the freaking panels unless you are a celebrity or major industry type.
So why don’t you put fingers to keyboard and show us what ya got?
Logic FAIL.
You say you’re a fan. You have an opinion. You say, nonetheless, that you cannot express any details underlying this opinion, outside of a convention panel.
Yet no fan EVER needs an excuse or reason to talk about something they actually care about.
That’s why they’re called FANS.
Logic FAIL.
I hated Beast Wars too. Y’know what I did? I quit watching it and spent all my #@#$ing money on anime at Suncoast. I also hated Armada. And by hate I mean didn’t enjoy. I had no urge to make war on it or destroy it. I just hated it the same way I hate cabbage.
Hell, I hate most Transformers stuff that way.
I liked ‘Transformers Animated’ pretty well though.
I just had this thought, which seems like it might be worth mentioning here: If the Shattered Glass universe runs parallel to the “canon” G1 continuity, that must mean there is an equivalent prehistory… Any chance of, dare I say it, Shattered Glass (or perhaps Cracked Amber) Beast Wars? (Yeah, CA does NOT have the right kind of ring to it.)
People who hate on Beast Wars are entitled to their opinion.
And I am entitled to call them idiots with no taste in toy robot advertise–err cartoons.
Most of the Beast Wars haters tend to either be nostalgia tards, or just generally terrible people.
Like Raksha. She hated Beast Wars and she was a horrible human being.
A friend of mine thinks Beast Wars sucks. But he also is a nostalgia whore type who considers the original Final Fantasy the only worthwhile one and the rest to be betrayers of the series. (Which means he never played JPN 3 which got a DS port that was pretty much the same thing only better.) He also likes the Twilight books unironically and was dumb enough to send out a mass email about that whole “put your ATM PIN in backwards to alert the cops you are in trouble”. Something that I merely looked at, thought it sounded stupid (palindrome PINs anyone?), put the topic into Google, and good old Snopes.com proved me right instantly that it was dumb.
(To be fair he is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. But the boy has bad taste and no street smarts whatsoever.)
So what does this mean with my OH so scientific evidence? Everyone who hates Beast Wars is a dumbass.
Though according to the general Net TF fanbase I suck for liking Beast Machines and not approving the ridiculous prices the fanbase spends on ebay/TFCC for toys that do little more than look pretty until they collect enough dust to have their camo.
(Course when you have guys like the Collection DX crew who talk about breaking their 4 figure cherry for a single toy purchase, even someone like Silas only looks sort of out it as opposed to completely insane. One DXer bought a toy that cost NEARLY 10000 DOLLARS. That’s more than my first 2 cars combined cost!)
So I could be wrong.
As long as it don’t hurt no one, like what you like, and hate what you hate.
But be mature enough to not be a total jerk about it.
Clearly these 2 failures were not, and thus they get mocked. I can only hope we get a rebuttal.
I’ve dealt with Tom Croom for years. Basically, if a convention refuses his ‘help’ he will do everything in his ‘power’ to see that the con fails.
He has bullied his way into most of the anime conventions in Florida in this way.
I’m glad to see SOMEONE has stood up to him and his worthless panels.
Honestly, I think Croom’s days as a major source of problems in the con scene are numbered.
Firstly, most people in the Florida con “scene” have correctly sourced him as the provoker or outright only cause of most of the con drama in Florida, a fact he rarely denies. Not only that, but Jacon ending has deprived him of one of his largest pedestals from which to poop on people from.
More importantly however is that people are starting to realize that most people at cans aren’t the ones that post about cons on 4chan. They don’t know or care about drama or Croom or Croom’s drama, they just want to have a good time. Con organizers are finally getting wise to that fact.
All that said, Willis, you have just used your comic to feed a troll, Tom Croom is probably wetting himself with pleasure that you noticed him. Quite frankly, I feel that he needs to be ignored as much as humanly possible.
True… Shouldn’t feed the TomTroll.
I love the way he cuts down Botcon as just being a dealer’s room and one panel… but most of the cons he lists as experience (FIT, Anime Express, etc) were TINY cons. I’ve attended FIT… attendance was in the LOW 100′s. His ‘company’ created a couple of cons that failed pretty hard. Of course, they were mostly created for his wife and their friends. Should I even mention the ‘animusical’?
Yeah, Tom is Florida’s #1 Drama Whore.
Unfortunately he’s branching out now to ruin AWA after ruining Jacon and AFO.
WAIT. Some poor woman married that guy?
I’ve written scathing things a few times, but keep deleting it in good taste. I can’t sleep without saying something.
Tom, is a small man who’s ego is far greater then his ability. Most conventions in Florida give him some panel time because it keeps the drama at a minimum.
I don’t care about TF but I am sick and tired of his bullshit at our conventions. I can’t imagine his panel of Transformers having any value after going to some of the events he has forced on the conventions he does them at. He once interrupted a dance his group hosted to spend 30 minutes talking about how great his group is only to convince people to never go back to that convention ever again(which they never did). Tom is poison, from his events to his attitude.
I don’t even think he really cares about anime even though he runs an “anime” group and does “anime” events at conventions. It’s more like he rips off TV shows that his wife likes that she’ll never be on and puts them at conventions for her and her friends to star in just so he can give her a reason to have sex with him.
I agree with what you say and wish to purchase your goods and/or services. ^_-
Wonder what show he’ll have to put his wife in to make up for certain… indiscressions?
That’s an easy question to answer. A couple of years ago Tom and his croomies ripped into the AlisaKiss website… Now his wife is doing the same sort of soft core tease porn too.
http://www.tomcroom.com/?p=6611&cpage=1#comment-18307
Mr. Croom made a post about this. For those who care.
He seems too far up his own ass for real discussion.
He should thank Willis for drawing a better avatar for him. His pseudo anime avatar is uninspiring.
I just think it’s worth saying that, as somebody who never much enjoyed the regular Transformers franchises as a child, Willis made me curious enough to watch Beast Wars in present day. I believe it is quite awesome.
Woooooooooo! *highfives*
This comic isn’t at all funny, and I couldn’t figure out why till just now…
There’s no joke here, this is how they are. You put it up to show people who don’t have to live with it because it’s so absurd.
To the outsider this is hilarious, to me it’s Florida convention season.
To be fair – every region has a Tom Croom. Some have more than one.
I was inspired by the Dinibot storyline to watch the Code of Honor episode- it’s pretty good! I could see myself getting into Beast Wars- and I have never watched Transformers.
Interweb Celbistars? Wow..i’ve never heard of two people who deserved to be punch mored by mike
I think this is a case of Poe’s Law… they MUST be joking…
You want to know why Beast Wars sucks? Here’s your chance…
http://www.tomcroom.com/?p=6616
Nice distraction. Now, if you had proven yourself at all trustworthy, then you might have a deal. But you’ve been nothing but a cowardly hack full of bullshit, and I’m not falling for your red herring. I trust you to follow up on this just as much as I trust you to interact with other human beings in a genuine manner, which is not at all.
But, sure, use this as cover for you to bow out, and to return to the comforting shadows where you feel safe and warm. I give you permission.
What a fucking blowhard you are. There’s not one single ball between the two of you.
I have never loved another man more then I do right now.
David,
Geek fighting with fanboys is fun from time to time, but having the chance to turn it into something worthy beyond “u r teh suck” is occasionally a good thing. As Pete (Tradeshowcon) pointed out in a post below – it’s not unusual for me to try and tie in charities to my “geek” life. Click on the link and see my sorry ass on TV talking about it.
No one’s forcing you to donate a dime. You kept asking for me to explain the theory of why Beast Wars sucks; I declined to do so because it is content we usually use for live performances.
I then offered to make an exception with the twist of bringing a charity into it. This is your sandbox – so you can call my a “a cowardly hack full of bullshit” all you want here. The opinions you’re pulling from, though, were just that: MY opinions that I expressed on MY blog.
Have fun NERD RAGING here all you like – I’m out. If we get to $250, I’ll take the time this evening to post the breakdown of why BW, without a doubt, sucks. If we don’t hit $250? That’s a shame… but in the midst of our OMGDRAMAZ online geekdom, some kids will benefit from it.
In my book, that’s a good thing.
Best of luck with your web comic and other future endeavors.
I’m all for charity, but this honestly smells of self important self promotion rather than philanthropy.
I know you have nothing, I know you’re hiding, and I know deep down you know it too.
Wow. It would be really cool if you could be bothered to give money to that charity without it being a sop to your ego.
Is there a way I can give money to the charity *without* it counting towards this ridiculous e-peen horseshit? I’d actually prefer it to have as very little to do with Croon as possible.
I’ll even lump it in with my Child’s Play charity budget.
Okay, if I could stop you for a moment, Tom, two things.
First of all, the key element of this DARE panel is to whine about Beast Wars? By the Sacred Spires and the Matrix Flame, that hardly sounds “ultimate” now does it? Where’s the love? Wouldn’t it be more worthwhile to dedicate a Transformers panel to aspects of the franchise you enjoy?
And second of all… you want to run a charity drive? This isn’t how. This is self-entitlement, pure and simple. I highly encourage everyone that wants to donate to do it, but not through Tom and Joey. I do not believe anyone’s opinion is worth money. Help the kids, fantastic. But don’t encourage Tom and Joey’s behavior.
Galengraff and the Allspark managed to raise over 2000$ earlier in the year for a Children’s Hospital charity (a charity drive I am always proud to say I participated in). I believe the points he made in this post are worth being read by everyone:
http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=70781&view=findpost&p=1589884
I want my 5 minutes of reading this uninformed crap back.
So you didn’t read that I take it? …. at what point was “Make a donation to a charity and I’ll tell you” uninformed crap?
Because he’s doing this:
http://blog.cleveland.com/ent_impact_movies/2008/02/medium_prezsheen.jpg
What a dick… trying to turn nerd rage into a little bit or charity…. he should be ashamed?
Maybe if this were more than a publicity stunt he could add to his resume, he would have suggested a higher number than, what, $250? Woo, 25 people contribute $10 and he’s got a new thing to brag about. Good job!
I give enough to charity to feel secure in not falling for this transparent ruse. Hell, I might throw $10 in anyway but not mark it appropriately. I’m not going to fuel some douchebag’s crusade to be the biggest hack of all time. Other than drawing a comic about them.
Yes. He’s hiding behind a charity because he has nothing to back up his claims. He’s a liar and now I’m a bad person for not caring about kids, that is a dick thing to do.
Oi vey… Tom decides to take the BEAST WARS FAN RAGE or TOM HATE, then funnels it to a charity that supports kids with terminal illnesses and you find problems with that?! Wow… U R teh ahsum!
Donate right now to Child’s Play.
Have you yet?
Is it because you hate children?
See, when I say something retarded and someone calls me on it, I don’t throw a bunch of terminally ill kids in front of me to cover my retreat. That’s the difference between you and me.
I am so glad you moved away, I hope you never come back.
Hey Joey, get 50 people to donate 10$ to David Willis’s charities of choice and I’ll tell you why you and Tom suck.
This example give you a good idea of the kind of self-entitled B.S. you and Tom are spewing?
No one should have to PAY to get an opinion. If I had some cash to spare I’d donate it to the charity just for the sake of helping kids, and not even follow the rest of your instructions to get your “Beast Wars sucks!” opinion.
@uhhhm?
Who said anything about reading the comments?
Why are you trying to make this into something it’s not?
WTF is wrong with you?
Now, the world don’t move to the beat of just one drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
A man is born, he’s a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.
But they got, Diff’rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff’rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.
Everybody’s got a special kind of story
Everybody finds a way to shine,
It don’t matter that you got not alot
So what,
They’ll have theirs, and you’ll have yours, and I’ll have mine.
And together we’ll be fine….
Because it takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.
Yes it does.
It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.
I wouldn’t pay these guys for bone marrow, let alone to have them narrate 1996 Usenet at me.
“I got so tired watching ReBoot that I didn’t have the energy to sit on the couch and watch Beast Wars, so I’ll say it sucked. NAILED IT!” –there, saved ‘em the trouble.
Ok, I went in for $10. Absolute WORSE case scenario, kids who deal with far more serious issues than whether or not a carton sucks will benefit from the community’s very small overall donation.
I will give Tom the benefit of the doubt that he would never use a charity in this way because I did see this:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/mornings/friday_salute/041610-friday-salute-Tom-Croom
Pete, I am going to call you Skeletor from now on.
Putting aside whether or not he wishes to actually help children. He’s still asking us to pay for the ‘privilege’ to receive his opinion? And if we don’t want to pay for his opinion, he gets to declare that we are therefore child-hating monsters.
This is the first I’ve ever heard of this guy and I already wish to punch him.
Donate to Child’s Play and on Tuesday (when I get back from Comic-Con) I’ll tell you why Beast Wars is awesome. In fact, I’ll tell you anyway. That’s not the important part.
Ha! That is true. But I for one do not want to be known as a child hating monster!
But seriously, sometimes, well, you know, its worth it…
I don’t have DAVE RAGE! You guys seem to have some rage, you don’t want to donate, don’t. Don’t call it something that it isn’t. You guys wanted Tom to chime in using a particular forum/media. Tom wanted to state his opinion in a different venue. Tom proposed a compromise that supports a charity. That’s what it is. You guys asked him to state his opinion, Tom has defined parameters. David seems to have defined parameters as well.
I have a feeling they will probably not find a common ground. Happens all the time. Oh, and Beast Wars, which I have watched, still sucks.
I think I just had an aneurism from sheer stupidity.
Joey, you’re missing the point. For the sake of trying-helplessly-to-avoid-an-argument, I will spell it out for you. Right here, on the internet, where everyone can see my opinion and either agree or disagree with it. Are you ready? Here goes.
The two of you are making a massive fuss about something or other. It doesn’t matter what. You then stated your opinion as fact. There is nothing wrong with that since you are entitled to have an opinion and express it.
But.
And this is important.
When people asked for reasoning behind this opinion, instead of giving some logical, well-thought out arguments, you then began insulting people and hiding behind chairties to give you more reasons to insult people.
If you have an opinion, fine. If you express that opinion, fine. If you then give reasons for that opinion, fine. You failed at the third hurdle. It makes you seem like a pair of whiny children.
As I mentioned, I will say this only once. If you have a counter-argument which isn’t more whiny-nonsense, I shall listen. If not, then I will ignore you.
Now, please enjoy cartoon shows like grown men.
Don’t respond to them. It feeds their ego.
Let me sum this up:
They made stupid statements, and we declared them Idiots.
They said “We’re not idiots — but you have to pay us for us to explain WHY we’re not idiots”
I say “I know you’re an idiot for free. I win.”
The money’s probably not going to charity at all. It’s probably going towards a time machine to take these two back to 1996 when some people might care what they have to say. There surely isn’t anyone around in 2010 who does.
No way am I donating to these twats. In fact I now don’t want to donate to these charities just because it will inflate their ego.
They are trolls plain and simple.
We fell for their schemes hook, line, and sinker and I wouldn’t doubt they are feverishly wankin it to our even talking to them.
Our bad.
I donate to charity all the time. But not for goodies or to read some assclown’s reasoning why he hates a cartoon.
I do it because I like the charity.
I have given to Paralyzed Veterans. Toys for Tots. Some of the various 1-5 dollar charities various stores have going.
I’m not going to give my hard earned money to what probably are deserving charities just so two attention whores can feel special.
My only regret? Ever responding to anything they have said.
Its what they want.
Let’s stop giving em what they crave. Don’t go to their blog. Don’t even talk about them any more.
Let’s do it like Beast Wars Megatron would.
“YOU NO LONGER EXIST!!!”
“You no longer exist!” is an awesome line and the delivery by David Kayes was just EXCELLENT. Whenever I see that scene or even THINK about it I get shiver down my spine! It was just THAT good!
In fact I think I can recall the whole line “History has changed, Maximals! The Autobots LOOSE! And now the Decepticons and Predacons are free to take their rightful places as leader of the universe! And you… YOU NO LONGER EXIST!”
Or might have been ‘Master of the Universe’?
From memory:
“Say goodbye to the universe, Maximals. The future has changed, yes… The Autobots lose! Evil triumphs! And you… YOU NO LONGER EXIST!”
Christ, I’ve given myself shivers just typing that. Beast Wars Megatron is the most awesome thing in the world ever.
You know, it really isn’t much of a secret that Botcon does have its issues (some of which have been articulated quite nicely in previously shortpacked adventures). That these two were left with even an impression at some point that FunPub was even considering adding them to their list of events is certainly cause for concern. I certainly wouldn’t want so-called “fans” who use contempt for a fandom as a way of making themselves feel bigger anywhere near the official program, no matter what price point I paid.
But hey, that’s just me! They’re welcome to share their opinions. It certainly has given the community something to talk about. And I’m sure the traffic this little controversy has developed has increased the traffic to their website to the point that this will become a regular theme for them. Hopefully, David, you’ve picked up a little traffic yourself for a pretty amusing daily strip. Nice people should benefit too.
DARE! to keep your kids off rabid-foam fanpanels.
Damn!
I’ve been really trying to not post about this. Really, REALLY trying. Mostly because I think the best thing we can do about this issue is to simple ignore them.
“So you don’t like Botcon and Beast Wars and present your opinion as fact? Fair enough. Don’t care. Move along.”
But today I gave in. Now I feel I shouldn’t have, but WTH, what’s done is done.
I posted this at Snackpants’ blog:
“Opinion.
If it’s about the author of this blog:
” I guess we have struck a real sore nerve and the rabid BotCon supporters came out to tell Tom and I that our opinion was wrong!”
Regarding Shortpacked’s author:
“It is still a quality product, even if his opinion of Beast Wars is seriously flawed.”
So what is it? Can opinions be wrong/flawed or not?”
-airfox
Hey Pants & Posse. It’s not about the Beastwars or the con, it’s about your apparent sense of entitlement, coupled with your underwhelming credentials. The “we’re ce-web-rities, give us a panel” bit just cries out for mockery.
I just got back from a week-long conference, in which several well-known and highly-paid presenters spoke. I then looked online and found all of their content, including videos of their entire presentations on their websites.
I find it interesting that these men and women, who get paid big bucks to present, have no problem sharing their material online, while Tom and Mr. Snackpants refuse to do so because it will ruin the impact of their panel. Must be a pretty craptastic panel. Has anyone ever actually seen them present at a con?
This is four times now that i’ve come on your website in the last 4 days when searching google for absolutely unrelated things. Kinda odd. Keep up the good work!
Dear Pants and Croom; I’m a young Floridian, new to the whole ‘Con thing. I am also a fan of Transformers whos tarted with Beast Wars. I can give you quite a few reasons why, in my opinion, Transformers Generation One sucks as a cartoon. It has shoody, real shoddy animation; the plotlines are contrived, cliched, and dull, the characters are flat, with no real development save for the Movie and third season; The Decepticons, especially Megatron, were ineffectual, pathetic villains until the movie; and Shockwave was not even HALF as cool as he was in the comics, so nyah!
But that’s just my opinion. Yes, it’s clouded by my childhood nostalgia from Beast Wars, but I’ve looked objectively at BW, and determined that it, in fact, is better than G1, of which I ALSO watched some episodes of in my early years. Beast Wars, due to the fact that the writers actually gave a damn about writing a good story for a cartoon designed to sell toys isntead of phoning it in like in G1, and the fact that the characters were more than “that guy who turned into a compact SUV and barely appeared at all” made it so much better.
Wait, how did I post twice?!
So hey.
If anyone feels like torturing themselves.
DARE! The Ultimate Transformers Panel is up on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX4abtFSiHQ
Lol. Ethan karaoked an Owl City song with Stan Bush? I find that awesome. That’s my favorite one, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j9WVGM-nSA
I wish a good number of people actually did this, where they only share their opinions if they get enough attention. It makes it much easier to stay out of this stuff; if I ignore them at first, they never say anything, I never get provoked/interested, I never get into an argument/discussion, and I am happy.
I admit I don’t agree with what they say, but I sat their panel at Dragon*Con last year [I was bored so sue me] and I admit it was hilarious if only because every time they mentioned Beast Wars by name they had to take a shot of whatever alcohol and in short order they were completely drunk. THAT was funnier than anything they had to say about the show