Yesterday was politics, today is religion. Clearly I’m out for any form of attention.
The excuse to get you out of any argument.
I bet having a son calmed him down.
Can’t go out flooding the world when your legacy lives in it, can you?
(Also: I love Amber’s face in the last panel.)
TOTALLY its so desperate and cute
“Old Testament God was angry and wrathful. New Testament God was kind and benevolent. Y’know what happened in between the two? He got laid.”
That is the BEST thing I have heard in quite a while.
Nah, he really kicks it up a notch after having a kid. At least in the OT death was the end; in the NT, if you don’t worship him and his son, you’ve got an eternity of torment to look forward to.
Following Gigafreak’s logic, God clearly became familiar with the idea of a long-term relationship.
As a reply to this whole conversation, the whole change in personality of the god of abraham in the new testament is most lokely because of the romans editing it so that it was more appealing at the dawn of the roman catholic church.
old, new….describes the changing relationship. jewish scholars were hip to jesus’ message because they had grown in their philosophy……still, only human sacrifice was god’s son………so even the old testament of the law pertaining to everyone was revolutionary and a step up from the death cults…
rif a moment on king arthur needing to enforce the law on best friend and wife even though he could handle it personally…camelot was a bright light in a dark world.
Always thought that. This guy floods, sends plagues, destroys cities, kills firstborn sons, and then he’s all “love one another as I love you.”
It can’t be the same guy. The old guy retired after a loved one was killed, so a new guy stepped up and took his place. The new guy just happened to be a hippie.
And it was retconned by the editors to be the same character…
Cherry-picking over the Old Testament much? There are several instances where non-Jews and strangers get shown mercy and/or love by the Old Testament God. King Melchizedek, Ruth, the widow at Zaraphath, and numerous other instances. In the Old Testament, if you look carefully, it takes longer and longer between wrath instances. Casting out from Eden, then the Flood, then it gets more fine tuned to the pockets of evil that pester like a mosquito.
Ahahahaha, you talking about cherry-picking, while defending the old-testament deity.
Read Job if you want to see that nasty fictional character describe himself and his relation to his “creation”. Or read about the exodus of the jews and their 40 years in the desserts, where god killed thousands of them on several occasions, just to punish them for being dissatisfied.
Or how about the one theme that crops up all throughout teh jewish and christian scriptures: People being punished for the sins of others.
My favorite example would be King Saul, but the most prominent one is of course the so called christ himself.
YHWH is not a mercyful deity, it is a belligerent deity of a nomadic and belligerent tribe in the middle east.
The story changes somewhat with the creation of the jewish sect that would spawn christianity, but I would argue thaz teh new god is even worse than the old. Claiming to be mercyful and loving, but in fact being the one that invents eternal torture as punishment for apostasy.
Like a mafia boss, telling his latest victim “why do you make me do this? You know I loved you, you are breaking my heart”, before breaking his knees for unpayed debts.
That is not what I call mercy, but YHWH´s morality (or rather the morality of the bronze age people projecting their moral code onto their fictional deity) being way inferior to my own is nothing new.
You’re assuming I’ve actually READ the Bible.
Well… I did, but it was so long ago I only remember the interesting parts.
Your next comic should be about who’s better: Kyle Rayner or Hal Jorden.
Been there, done that!
Well, then. I guess all that’s left is emacs vs. vi.
he’d never do something like that.
Mainly because it doesn’t need to be said. RAYNER. END OF STORY. #suckitjordan
John Stewart. Because the only thing cooler than the most expensive fighter test pilot in history is a US Marine.
The better comparison would be Hal Jordan or Thomas Tonberry “The Great And Powerful Turtle” from George R.R. Martin’s “Wildcards” series.
I read the series more often than i do Marvel or DC sue me. Especially since more books are coming out in it. heh
The real answer is of course, Alan Scott. The original and best GL. Hal is third place, and Kyle ties for second with John Stewart.
What about Guy Gardner?
Guy Gardener invented a new number to go before one and awarded himself that title.
Bah, everyone knows that Kilowog is the best GL ever.
(With Gardner coming in second)
Hal Jordan sucks and no matter how hard Johns & Mr Whatshisfacefancypantspainter say, that boring tool is not going to be awesome just because they grew up with Hal on the Superfriends.
Because the Superfriends sucked. And its even worse when you compare it to Justice League/Unlimited.
And you started off the post so well with Alan Scott mentioned…
Honestly, I think Hal’s great and I think all the Lanterns have gotten a good deal since he came back.
That said, Guy’s the best.
So, movie Sideways, sliced in half and mounted on a cross: HE DIED FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT
So Sideswipe is Judas? I knew something wasn’t right about that murderous corvette.
You just weren’t getting enough flak from “Canon and Fanon,” were you?
I kept telling you, man, that “Canon and Fanon” should have systematically insulted everything everyone holds dear.
Both do equally.
Though I will admit, fanon occasionally throws some curveballs that make me want to buy a series. I never wanted to see Boondock Saints until I read a fanfic one day.
I think you misunderstand.
Isn’t that what Shortpacked is for?
Luckily, I’m invincible to mockery (i.e. you don’t know what makes me tick).
Sooner or later I’ll find out, and then you’ll be sorry! *shakes fist*
You’re just upset because I haven’t bought anything in a while. Which I reminds me, I need to email you about the J&W strips.
I’m sorry to be irrelevant, but I feel a compulsion to inform you all that that shaking-fist action paired with the toy Ethan gravatar made me feel uncomfortable and, for a split second, a tiny bit afraid.
I haven’t slept in like 38 hours though so this could be the sleep dep talking.
Hard to continue to be offended at church opinion. Not like it’s gonna change…
I’m a little surprised Amber has strong enough opinons on either Transformers OR Christianity for this conversation to happen.
Well, it’s kinda got to be Amber. It can’t be Ethan or Leslie, as they’re needed for the joke. Robin wouldn’t care or be focused enough to bring it up, Jacob’s knowledge of Transformers isn’t as in depth as the others and his religious beliefs are thus far unknown, Ninja Rick barely speaks, Galasso thinks HE’S God, Faz is a tool and Mike I’m pretty sure would just kick people in the nuts. (So would Ultra Car if he had feet.)
It’s gotta be Amber.
Or just not have the joke at all if it had to be that awkward to formulate. Is the exchange based on some actual comments from a person who expressed these mildly conflicting viewpoints? Seems a long way to go for this one, otherwise.
I think you’re looking too much into a punchline.
Amber’s closely known Ethan for about … eight years now? And Transformers is 50% of what Ethan talks about. She’s gonna have questions about it when stuff confuses her.
As for her Christianity, despite being raised Catholic, she’s not terribly devout, true. But I know a few folks who haven’t really been Christian for years, but still get defensive about some of the basic ideas. Or to put it in a way Ethan would present it, even if you haven’t cared about Transformers in twenty years, you can still get upset when live-action Megatron doesn’t transform into a gun.
Or that Bumblebee doesn’t transform into a VW Beetle. Really, it summarizes his personality more totally than any other TFer’s alt-mode. Cool, but dorky, out of date, but still iconic. Everybody would like to own one, but not many people will admit it.
What’s this “Bumblebee is a Camaro crap?
Years ago, parents complained that their kids playing with megatron was like them playing with a real gun, so Hasbro changed him. Bumblebee became a camaro because VW is trying to clean up their past “history” so they do not want their products to be associated with “war” movies. Hence, the scene in the car lot between Bumblebee and the VW Bug.
Just to play devil’s advocate, having his son nailed to a cross is just the sort of thing that Old Testament God would do.
Haha! Belief systems, am I right?
But… we DIDN’T make them all the same character. Sideways (RID) and Sideways (ROTF) are still two separate articles!
Yeah, but odds are Walky made this one ahead of time, and he still wants ROTF Sideways to be RID/Armada Sideways, and he Quit Allspark Forever because the general consensus was that ROTF Sideways wasn’t RID Sideways.
Yeah, that’s totally why I haven’t posted to the Allspark. Couldn’t be any other reason.
No other reason at all.
Well if it isn’t, that’s perfectly fine, and if you’re going to continue posting on Allspark then I’m all for it.
But that last post you made about a week ago during the Sideways debacle made it seem like you’d decided to leave the message board.
I guess in the same way that the Almanac II made it seem like Animated Sideways was ROTF Sideways
Yes, but not about Sideways. Jesus Christ. I made merged two pages because I thought it was obvious and didn’t think anyone else would care. When people did care, I presented my views. And then when I was overruled, I personally helped move it back.
I personally helped move it back.
But, yes, I am the devil, and I left because I didn’t get my way. Nothing to do with being demonized for an absolutely retarded and ultimately inconsequential thing (with the help of an administrator!) and realizing I can make better use of my time. Even if I don’t participate in an argument, I still become the focal point of the argument because of a whole buffet of issues. If I respond, it’s because I’m a troll. If I don’t respond, it’s because I’m avoiding reality. I don’t care to be part of that kind of hostile environment. It’s not fun.
Well… for what it’s worth, in spite of our differences here and there, I still think you’re a decent guy.
You’re one of Transfandom’s “old guard”, and are pretty famous thanks to your online presence and dedication to the hobby. Problem is, with internet fame, internet infamy is never far behind. I’ve heard people talk about you like you’re some sort of boogeyman out to destroy their love of the hobby.
So yeah, you get a bad rap.
For what it’s worth, I hadn’t even noticed your absence from the Allspark, it was pointed out to me by Wingus yesterday.
I guess in short, I’m sorry for misinterpreting your post as a departure from the Allspark.
Let’s just pray she doesn’t find out Alpha Trion’s a Multiversal Singularity and try to reconcile that with SG A3….
This is so unlike Willis, I agree with the comment, even when it’s kinda awkward and difficult to wrap your head around if you are not deep into transformers’ lore, but it’s so unlike you at all.
I cannot find any sense in your comment, whatsoever.
Leslie has a very good point there. Seriously, it is like God’s personality changes 180° degrees…
As for Sideways…guess it sucks to be a Multiversal singularity at times. Just ask The Fallen!
I wouldn’t say Sideways is a multiversal singularity in the “traditional” sense. He’s just a mostly mortal guy who has been to a lot of universes because his line of work requires a lot of travel.
Technically there could be MULTIPLE Sideways shuttling between universes– splitting 18 universes between 2 guys or something.
(There aren’t… but there COULD be.)
An incarnation of Sideways may even EXIST in some of the Universes he visits.
Sideways is kinda a ‘local singularity’, it’s “The Sideways of Earth 1602″ that’s been bopping around all these universes.
And given there’s like 30 slightly different Movieverses, even if he IS ROTF Sideways (as he appears to be) it causes lots of head-scratching about whether he is ALL of them, some of them… or whether some of them are ALSo Sideways… but just the local version?
It’s entirely possible that Sideways was INTENDED to replace his local counterpart in the RotF movieverse (he was apparently late or something, since he kept mentioning his next dimension) and due to the black hole incident never arrived– thus in ALL versions of the ROTF film we got the non-Unicron-affiliated Sideways.
Until we know if Sideways actually ARRIVED or not, it’s hard to say. The Axalon disaster kinda has an ‘implied outcome’ which is NOT the Movieverse; it’s Beast Wars (or some Animated version thereof.)
Actually, the 180° turn IS the Jewish point of view. The god of the bible is a god of war and most Rabbis will confirm that with gusto. Jesus is the Christian god of love but devout Jews do not recognise any divinity in Jesus. Ethan’s waffling on the subject is in character, as he has already indicated he isn’t very religious.
Ethan isn’t very religious, no, but he IS looking at things from the Jewish point of view here. They don’t really accept the New Testament as canon, so of course he’s not going to be able to support Amber.
So Judaism is G1 and Christianity is Movieverse?
I would be more into the bible if, during the beheading of John the Baptist, Salome yelled, “GIVE ME YOUR FACE.”
I’m vague on the meaning of “movieverse.” I suppose if I must put it in modern parlance, the NT would be a “reboot” of the bible, with all the revision of character and moral that implies.
A good example would be the Catholic bible. They completely removed the second commandment and padded it out with the first. Compare a OT translated from Hebrew to a OT from the KJV. You see some massive rewrites going on there.
A more apt comparison would be that Judaism is G1 and that Christianity is Beast Wars, IMO.
I dunno, Beast Wars was way more violent and bloodthirsty than G1. That’s not terribly New Testamentlike!
BWAHaHahaha! That made my day. Thanks
Poor Leslie, more mouthpiece than character. :’(
You are aware of her backstory, right?
Man whatchu talkin about?
outside of Japan the TF community understands The Transformers fiction as a multiverse. Not everything has to fit together.
Where with takara tomy every toy has to have some fiction to tie it in with their single universe mindset. Then Alternity looks Neat to the Japanese, because their canon has all been taking place in the same universe up to that point.
In the west were already on that plateau.
I don’t understand your “outside of Japan” distinction. Japan does have a multiverse. This “dimention” flowchart is from TakaraTomy’s website a few years ago.
Sure, most of their stories take place in a single universe, but the “multiverse” idea isn’t a strange new thing to them.
Kiss Players Position is BY FAR the largest universe in that chart, with second place going to to Kiss Players proper. I feel disturbed and a little queasy now.
I woudn’t worry too much over that. When the chart was made, it was the newest at that time, so it got the larger focus… So to speak.
I just like Amber’s expression in the last panel. I’m continually impressed by the range of emotion you can convey with what appears at first to be a very simple style.
Amber’s expression is indeed awesome, but how is Ethan speaking with his mouth closed?
I would make a “reformatting” joke, but obviously the Lord pulled more of a Piccolo or a Buu. He split off Jesus, becoming a lot more mellow after the reuptake process.
… p.. protestant reformatting.
For the record, I also use this argument to sidestep most racial issues.
What I find ludicrous is that anyone would try to quantify an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient force. People change, I doubt an ageless Creator does. As we grow in age, so does our comprehension of all things…Our limited understanding of The Creator was expanded by each person who helped write what we call the Bible today. The Bible is almost like the original Wikia if you think about it…Jesus’s early followers just locked it from being edited.
inconsequentially, a pilot is more cool and an artist…Afterall did you ever see Tom Cruise star in a movie about being an illustrator?
You forgot omnibenevolence.
But you should realize that all the “omnis” are nothing more than logically inconsistant and ultimately pointless attributes to a fictional deity.
The simplest explanation for the discrepancies between the old and the new testament (and really ALL religions) is that they are in fact man made. They are fictional and only reflect the zeitgeist of their age of origin.
There is no reason to assume the existence of a creating force, nor any evidence to back up this claim.
In fact this assumption would not even be useful to try and explain the origins of our universe (Aquinas´s “unmoved mover”), because if you can simply postulate your deity of choice to be eternal and without couse, why not just step back, cast out the god of the gaps and posit that the universe may need no cause?
As a devout Christian, I am commanded by the apostle Peter to make a short reply to the inanity of WorkbenchManiac.
1. The theme of the Bible is not ONLY that some people are found guilty and punished for the sins of others, although this is true. It is ALSO the theme of the Bible that some people (the Church) are CLEARED or ACQUITTED based on the perfect righteousness of Christ. This is what we call good news.
2. Your characterization of hell is typically childish. It will not be poor, infirm debtors whom God punishes in hell. It will be bold, impudent rebels who deserve the full ferocity of the King. If you are going to criticize a religion, at least allow that religion to define itself first.
3. On the assumption of a creator: You “posit” (assume) the universe has none. I assume it does. Is this not a bit like two people disagreeing over whether the chicken came first or the egg? One is not more inherently foolish than the other.
4. If religions are just products of the zeitgest, you would think Christianity would be getting pretty tired after 2,000 years. But it’s not. Uh-oh.
If age is an indicator of truthfulness, then you agree that Hinduism is at least twice as true as Christianity?
-Is late to this-, but basically your analogy in point 3 also fails, the egg obviously came first- dinosaurs were around far longer than when the first chicken came to the scene! It is foolish to suppose that the chicken came first given relevant scientific evidence to date.
I’m a Christian- but not a tightwad. This strip is AWESOME!
And Amber’s actually cute in this one X3
I WOULD agree, if age was such an indicator. But just because I typed a number doesn’t mean I equate age with truthfulness. I’m not sure if you are just being snarky or genuinely misunderstood me, so I will go on as if you raised a serious objection.
My point was that just because a religion arises at a particular time in history from within a particular people group, and so might be considered, in a convoluted sense, a product of the spirit of the age, this does not count against its truthfulness in the least.
In fact, if God exists, you might call Him the “Spirit of ALL ages”, but now I’m just being poetic.
“If religions are just products of the zeitgest, you would think Hinduism would be getting pretty tired after 5,000 years. But it’s not. Uh-oh.”
So as a Christian who probably thinks Hinduism is untrue, why is that? Folks have believed it for so long. There must be something to it.
Okay. You have successfully called me out for my bravado in #4 up there. Kudos, but that still leaves #1-3.
And to answer your question in a fashion that will totally annoy you, I know Hinduism is untrue because God didn’t make me Hindu. He made me a Christian. Commence whining.
I ignored 1-3 because there isn’t really anything to engage on a rational level. They were just lists of incredibly offensive opinions that, were I to have to rebut, would just end in ad hominem attacks. We’re all impudent rebels who deserve eternal torture? All right, then. Agree to disagree?
And, yes, your answer does annoy me because it makes no rational sense and is completely self-centered in every possible way.
And Allah made a muslim well, muslim. So why are you right and the muslim is wrong?
That’s really a non-argument you got there.
If my view made no rational sense, you couldn’t very well call it self-centered or offensive, now could you? This is not insignificant, I think. It shows plainly a human being’s capacity for self-deception.
What I am about to ask you is not a joke, though you would probably like to take it as such. I mean it in all seriousness and do hope you answer.
Could you please tell me what “rational sense” is? I’m not certain I believe in it.
It is past my bedtime. I fully expect this conversation to be intruded upon when I return, but hopefully not.
“Rational sense” is something that can be tested. This is in contrast to “common sense,” which begs to be left alone because, duh, it’s just common sense and please trust us. “Common sense” has been used to rationalize just about every terrible evil in the world. It’s common sense that black people are inferior to white people. It’s common sense that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
But rational sense means something that can actually, you know, survive rigorous analysis.
“I know Hinduism is untrue because God didn’t make me a Hindu” absolutely cannot survive analysis. It can barely survive an eye-rolling. It posits that your beliefs are superior to others simply because you have them. It doesn’t even attempt to feel for data outside of your own experiences. It doesn’t even recognize other people as sentient beings.
Somewhere out there, there might be a Hindu guy who says “I know Christianity is untrue because the gods didn’t make me a Christian.” His statement is equally dense. And if you deny his statement’s veracity, then yours doesn’t work either.
“Rational sense means something that can survive rigorous analysis.”
My statement “cannot survive analysis.”
Analysis by what? I’m looking for criteria here. What is this “data outside of my own experiences” with which all statements must comport in order to be considered rational?
And just as an aside, how could you possibly jump to the conclusion that I deny a Hindu’s sentience? Was that merely a rhetorical flourish?
“What is this ‘data ouside my own experiences’ with which all statements must comport in order to be considered rational”?
Are you for real?
Is this really an appeal to insanity?
You’re just trolling me now, aren’t you?
Swear I’m not a troll. I’m not even sure what that is.
And I’m not talking about insanity. I’m talking about logic.
When you say my view ‘cannot survive analysis’, this is what you mean, right? My view cannot stand up to the laws of logic.
So, to answer my own question, logic is that “data outside my own experience” with which all statements must comport in order to be considered rational. I hoped you would have caught on to this.
Is there anything I’ve said in this comment that you find outrageously disagreeable?
I’ve got errands to run, so the coup de grace will have to come later.
And he was never heard from again.
Yay! A strip about my favorite Transformers character!
I like him since he’s a magnificent bastard.
By the way, when people mention the biblical references and comparing with Sideways, it makes me think of my favorite character in One Piece, Buggy the Clown. The character, later in the series, becomes a messiah to fellow misguided pirates. Funny how my favorite characters have something in common one way or another.
Seriously dude, just call religion and politics off-limits like every other sane forum for discussion.
or at least don’t ‘poke’ ‘poke’ ‘poke’ and throw sand in its face, while acting mmmmmm “rational” and “why is there such a fuss?”
yeah, that would be trolling, wouldn’t it
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