I see what you did there.
The metahumor is astounding me with its brightness.
Ow, the pun, it hurts
Pat looks really feminine to me in the first two panels. For the face close-ups, at least.
Unless you meant to do that, in which case I am completely stupid for missing the point.
Well, that’s what Pat Lee actually looks like… so I’d guess it’s intentional.
Just them? I thought he was really feminine in the whole thing.
Also, Pat Lee is a douche. Hope Dreamwave employees get the money they’re owed.
Wow! I’m out of the loop. What book is Pat Lee on these days?
Widow Warriors. Like the comic says.
For some reason I was thinking “Widow Warriors” was a new nick name for comic book readers. Like the term Fan Boys but a little less derogatory… I guess. Sort of like the panels are kind of like windows to the wars taking place in the worlds of comic books!!!
Must be the new medication I’m on.
Did I mention I’m dyslexic? I keep reading “Widow” as “Window”. Oy. Now maybe my previous post might make sense… maybe.
Don’t worry, I read it that way too. I think it’s just that the word “window” is more common than “widow” in common parlance.
I would be infinitely more likely to read/watch something called “Window Warriors” though, if only because it promises unimaginable cheesy awesomeness.
Please tell me this is an exaggeration. Please.
Why is this arsehole given commissions?!
And because Dreamwave was small fries. Nobody but us Transfans, really, care much for how Dreamwave folded or bothered looking into the details of it.
It’s sad but true…
He look like a lesbian.
No, not here.
In real life.
You know, I understand what your saying, but I think I’m a little offended lol I don’t wanna be bunched into a demographic with that douche
That’s understandable. I don’t want to be in the same species as that douche.
He’s not actually trans, right? ‘Cause I often get mistaken for a lesbian…..
It would explain why he likes taking his shirt off so much, too.
As far as I’m aware, he is not. His marketing machine merely chose words to describe him that had possible second meanings.
The funny thing is, in a way, violence towards women IS feminism. If you’re willing to punch both men and women, then really, you see the genders as equal.
THANK you. I constantly say that equality means getting the bad WITH the good, but I still get told violence toward women is worse than violence towards men.
If it helps any, it’s not that one is ‘worse’ than the other (they’re both still abhorrent). It’s that violence toward women, along with other things, used to be completely okay, and is still completely okay to a very large number of people for many and varying reasons.
Part of what feminism is supposed to mean is that regardless of who’s hitting who, the case is handled the same way. In practice it doesn’t do so hot, though.
If you’re willing to punch both men and women, you’re not treating people equally, you’re being an asshole.
Besides, there are people–Spouses!–who beat on women plenty already and they’re still woman-hating assholes.
There are plenty of good reasons to punch people.
Mainly the good reason is you are Batman.
Well, yes. That goes without saying.
There’s quite a lot of domestic violence/abuse that goes the other way too. One of my feminist friends constantly overlooks that and says it doesn’t matter compared to men beating/abusing women. I get a bit annoyed by that considering I was bullied throughout my school years by girls; apparently I shouldn’t have been bothered.
Regarding the punching women and men means seeing them as equal, I suppose that much is true, but it implies you don’t see them as equal to yourself, which I think is bordering on sociopathy.
The problem with your statement is that, when you say “quite a lot,” you seem to suggest that the actual number of men getting hit by their wives is remotely comparable to the number of women who get hit by their husbands. This is simply not so.
It’s not that hitting men is okay. It’s that it really doesn’t happen anything like as often as hitting women does. That’s where the inequality is. And it needs to stop.
Basically, women need to step it up.
The stats on that are probably skewed though since how many men are gonna report that. I doubt it’s that much of a stretch to suppose men get slapped as often as women get slugged. Due to the strength and size dynamics men don’t get beat to crap as often of course, but women can and do swing improvised weapons.
Handwaving violence against men is just another problem with a society that deep down, when it comes to domestic or sexual violence, thinks that it’s better to pretend a man wanted it than to suggest he wasn’t in control.
Let me rephrase what I’m reading from you, Mark Baker-Wright. “Because your specific circumstance is different from what usually happens, you and your pain are of no consequence.”
At least, that’s what it sounded like to me. I call Bullshit.
The problem with the idea that pounding on women as well as men means that “the genders are being viewed as equal” is that physically, they aren’t. And until the average woman is the same size and strength, and as able to fend off an attack, as the average man, they won’t be.
If it was a big kid beating up on a smaller kid at school, and the big kid said, “Oh, it’s okay; me beating up someone smaller and weaker than me means I’m seeing him as an equal,” everyone would rightly tell the bully, “Pick on someone your own size!!” because while women should absolutely be treated the same as men under the law, and in hiring, etc etc; the reality is, when it comes to physical violence, the average woman just can’t stand up to the average man, any more than that little kid is physically capable of standing up to the schoolyard bully.
And until that changes (which it likely never will), then violence towards women (and media that depicts that as being okay) just isn’t “treating women equally.”
Sadly. Because I do understand what you’re saying; and if the physical differences were reversed, or if this was a matriarchal society in which women held all the power, then you’d be correct. It’s just that when women are physically smaller and weaker, AND are second-class citizens, then violence towards women ISN’T “promoting equality.” :-/
In a way, yes. Not the way many, many comics do it.
Of course, saying violence against women as well as men is feminism suggests there is an equal level of violence exchanged. When its just violence against women, well, that’s misogyny.
in a way I agree with you, I have always hated someone who said they would have hit me if I weren’t a woman (this has only come up a couple of times but sometimes I can be a bitch to people) its like, what you think a guy can take it better? Well screw you. I am not for violence in any form but equal treatment is equal treatment. The problem is the phrase “violence against women” has the connotation that someone is being violent against the person BECAUSE they are a woman, which is obviously not equality in action.
His lips look like pac man in the first panel.
Can’t sleep. Funana will eat me.
Oh HELL. I just looked up info on the series and an interview with the boy on Newsarama. Three words come to mind:
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
(At least) three things: a)How have people not learned their lesson yet? b)Why don’t the characters look Chinese?! c)The story is an actual historical event based in our actual real world. What kind of goddamn fantasy creatures can there possibly be?
I just realized that I need to explain myself further because what I wrote was about as coherent as…well, something Pat Lee would write (sorry – responded while still flustered with frustration).
So let me try again: How have the owners and higher-ups in comic book companies not learned their lesson yet? Why do they keep on giving him money when he most likely will outsource the work, without providing actual money or credit, to a third party? Why not just eliminate the middle man and hire Alex Milne?
Why is it that, with Widow Warriors being set in historical China and about Chinese and Mongolian people, that the characters in the preview art DON’T LOOK ORIENTAL? Hell, one of the recurring characters/extras/whoever it is on the preview pages look like Wolverine without his mask on. And the “women” on the cover? The main female character, front and centre on the cover? She looks like a man with back problems, wearing ill-fitting fantasy armor.
And speaking of fantasy…this is a historical event that took place in the real world. What in the HELL are fantasy creatures doing in the story (as revealed in the Newsarama piece)?
God, this guy pisses me off…
“And all of the fights are based on actual battles from Japanese history. Now here we see this giant enemy crab…”
“Attack its weak point FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE!”
Did you really use the word “oriental” to mean “of southeast asian descent?”
Are you 85 years old or just kind of stupid?
Your Pat Lee is going to team up with the Weeping Angels and haunt my dreams.
Don’t blink. Don’t look at the eyes.
OMG, those weeping angels really freak me out too. Much more than daleks, cybermenor the obb.
And so if Amber punches Mike it’s feminism, but if Mike punches Amber it’s abuse?
Let’s make it easier, NOBODY CAN PUNCH ANYONE ELSE! (excluding Batman)
Oooooooooo, can we have a strip with Amber punching Batman?????
No, I pretty sure regardless of who Mike punches, it’s Mike being Mike.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with it so long as it’s important to the story. Too much of the violence against female characters, however, is just for either shock value or to be “grim and gritty”, because that’s considered cool.
By the ever decreasing group who still reads those comics.
there’s nothing wrong with being grim and gritty, if it is done for the right reasons, such as social commentary, or if the story actually calls for it and not just for shock value or to make or take the place of characterization/story. Plenty of comics have done it right: Transmetropoliton, Sandman, Hellblazer, etc. Sadly however, a lot of comics are gritty and grim merely to make everything seem cooler, which is the wrong reason to do it.
“Sadly however, a lot of comics are gritty and grim merely to make everything seem cooler, which is the wrong reason to do it.”
Exactly my problem with the entertainment industry as a whole. I don’t have a problem with darker material, some of which I actually own. (Not the ones you list, but that’s another conversation.) Dark and violent for the sake of being dark and violent makes stuff that needs to be “grim and gritty” look bad and ruins it for everyone.
How about Batman punching Amber, then stating he’s a feminist?
Vote Chop-her-face, amirite Pat? Amirite?
Pat: *Flex flex mush lips*
No. No, you’re lying, and this thing will Not Be.
Which comic company hired him for this? coz it’d help me avoid them in the future if i knew.
Unfortunatly it’s Dynamite that hired Pat Lee for Widow Warriors. Admitadly there’s at least one character who DOES look a bit asian on that cover. But the plot reminds me of Mulan in a way….and Mulan was also based on a chinese legend.
*cringes at the very first line of the article*
“Pat Lee, the creator who revitalized The Transformers”
What does that even mean?? Creator of what? He didn’t create Transformers, he just drew puffy versions of characters that existed roughly 20 years prior…
And even then… he didn’t create anything. His “Dreamwave original titles” were just ripoffs of some anime shows.
No, no, see, he *revitalized* the Transformers. He gave them Flintstones chewables.
Wait, Rob liefield is responsible for letting this guy into the industry? No wonder Pat lee was able to get a job.
All we need is for John Byrne be involved somehow and we’ve got the comic book douchebag trifecta.
At least John Byrne has actual skill, unlike those two other nimrods. He’s still a total dick though…
Feminism is not really equality, it’s just sexism against a different demographic. You gotta go for equal-opportunity bigotry- everybody is just as horrible as everybody else.
Feminism’s supposed to be about equality. An unfortunately large group of people are just Doing It Wrong.
Also unfortunately, a lot of people view attempts to make things equal for women as a threat to men.
I might possibly consider thinking about maybe agreeing with you if it weren’t for the fact that feminism is beneficial to men, too, not just women. It really is about creating equality for BOTH sexes, especially when changing social norms like “raising children is the woman’s job” and “women are emotional, men are logical”. Even the push for equal pay has benefits for men.
Learn you some real feminism, not strawman feminism.
I remember when women got the right to vote. What a sexist thing to do against men!
Yeah, them womens should get back in the kitchen and make us men people a sammich. (Kidding!!!)
If you kid about sammiches, the terrorists win.
Did you know that every time a woman votes, she cancels out the vote of a man who voted the other way? THIS is the kind of world we live in.
You remember when women got the right to vote? What are you, The Highlander?
That’s why he keeps making new comic strips.. Every 3-4 years someone comes along and kills the old David Willis, then absorbs his powers and becomes the David Willis of our era.
so an era is 3-4 years now? someone should inform the historians
I know. God, we women are sexist assholes. The government should apologize.
I believe this to be partly true. Feminist in my country rage on about wanting equal pay, more women employed in leading jobs and so on, but at the same time often states, that women shouldn’t be drafted for the army, although men has to.
I don’t see that as equal.
Someone needs to tell Pat about Women in Fridges Syndrome.
All he’ll do is make a puffier, shinier fridge to put them in!
And puffier, shinier women to get stuffed in them!
And they’ll be DULLY SURPRISED when they get stuffed in!
The best part is the last line of the press release (on the Comic Book Resources site that Dierna linked to above this post):
“Pat and his brother Roger Lee founded Dreamwave Productions. The two secured comic licenses for the popular toy line Transformers, which Lee would illustrate. His work on Transformers brought newfound attention on the Transformers property, making way for the incredible success it would eventually achieve on film.”
Apparently, Pat Lee is claiming credit for the movies, too. It wasn’t nostalgia, marketing, or people going to see a summer blockbuster. No, everyone who went actually read the comics! How conceited–and stupid–is he?
DO NOT WANT.
Satan has returned!
oh, this is all terribly hilarious. I find it interesting how much “his art style” has “grown.” Heck, its like they were drawn by completely different people.
As far as feminism goes, pretty much no one does it right. Old feminists think it means hating all men, young “feminists” use it as an excuse to act as dumb as the majority of young men. OH WELL, not much can be fixed now, best to just watch the whole thing swirl the toilet.
Way I remember it, his art IS all drawn by completely different people.
Women hating men or women acting excessively ‘liberal’ isn’t feminism, it’s stupidity. Do you even KNOW what feminism is?
Do yourself a favour and read a book, okay?
Yes, I DO know what feminism is. Heck, I know enough to know that it is different things to different people. Hence the reason I was saying almost no one does it right. My examples were of NOT feminism, that is often passed off as such. Maybe take you advice and re-read my post, okay?
Maybe you should write a more coherent post? From what I can tell, you are writing that ‘no one does it right,’ as in the examples of old/young feminists you have wonderfully illustrated. You then go on to say that old feminists ‘think it means hating all men’, and young feminists ‘use it as an excuse to act as dumb as possible.’ If these are just examples of people doing feminism wrong, you shouldn’t be saying ‘old feminists think this,’ it should be more ‘some individuals who THINK they are feminists believe this.’
If I’m totally wrong in my analysis of your words, your paragraph was extremely confusing and was totally worded to sound like “old feminists / young feminists (also known as first wave and liberal) are morons, points illustrated badly here”.
My my, either you are up early (or late I guess) or like me you live in another country.
My original post, since you could not tell, was tongue in cheek. Since you mention coherence, I re-read my own post and see that I did include a qualifier, in this case the word almost, to describe examples of the way some people act, in the name of “feminism” or “equality,” that I have seen that are doing it wrongly. You some how managed to agree and disagree with this statement and labelled it accurately as stupidity.
Using the example of young women acting as dumb “as young men”, I thought conveyed that acting stupidly regardless of gender was silly, not equality. A lot of women, many who are not feminists or at least do not understand the term, use the word equality as an excuse to act irresponsibly, when it is them just acting stupidly.
Fair enough I may have used words that have too much of a blanket quality but I think you are just 1. picking nits and 2.possibly fall into one of these categories and I hit a nerve. I am also not going to get into some silly labelling debate, first wave/ liberal, as that is just another way to marginalize more people. All people should be treated equally, without the need to think about it first. I would apologise for not living up to the standards of someone I do not know but, I can’t be bothered. This has been fun though!
1. ‘First wave’ and ‘liberal’ are not ‘labels.’ They are disciplines. Calling someone a liberal/radical/whatever feminist doesn’t label or box someone in, it gives clarity to the discipline that person aligns their beliefs with.
2. If you are saying you used the word ‘almost’ as a qualifier, it is not in your original post.
Yes, it would be wonderful if we lived in a world where everyone believed in equality between gender/race but since we don’t, that is why there is feminism. And yes, you did hit a nerve. Because I wish these types of stereotypes didn’t exist and I wish people didn’t perpetuate them.
Fuck Pat Lee, the slick, worst artist in the world SOB that he is. if this man is not the antichrist, the devil’s spawn, Satan incarnate, then label me Susan and place me to one side thank you very much.
The existence of Liefeld suggests to me that you might be named Susan and should thus be set aside.
I want another Pat Lee TF’s drawing tutorial!!
when is says America I hope he means South…
When he says America I hope he means Amerigo Vespucci
No, thank you. Keep your Pat Lee in the north. We don’t need him in South America.
OK how about so far North in North America that he’s almost in Europe?
So.. Greenland then? Greenland’s part of Europe even tho it’s somewhat connected to North America. *lol*
I am shocked.
Y’sure look it.
Am I to take from the title, “the Transman” that he’s supposed to be FTM transgender? The fact that he’s drawn looking feminine is kind of fucked up, if that’s the case.
No, it’s a reference to his prior work on Transformers comics. He’s cissexual.
It’s actually from a Dreamwave press release
PAT LEE’S TRANSFORMERS: GENERATION ONE CALENDAR (2004)
Art by Pat Lee
Previews Synopsis: After a year plus of taking on everyone’s favorite robots in disguise, fanfave artist Pat Lee chooses his 12 favorite G1 pieces for this super-charged calendar. Hand picked by the Transman himself, this breathtaking calendar chronicles some of Pat Lee’s most dynamic renditions of the first generation of TRANSFORMERS. Also includes all-new cover art created especially for this calendar. It’s a year’s worth of TRANSFORMER goodness that’s sure to please any hardcore Transfanatic. (Actual cover not shown)
FC 11”x12” $14.99
I like how he said that “‘the original story is so rich with historical characters that it was a real challenge to filter it down into an American comic format.’”
Y’know, for one of my finals I had to turn Herman Melville’s ‘Typee’ into to a sixteen-page comic. Yeah, the same guy who wrote Moby Dick. And ya know what? At least I didn’t ACTIVELY try to DUMB IT DOWN for my audience. A real challenge? A real challenge is finding the iconic parts and making sure they’re represented as best you can with art and text, not…whatever the hell it is you’re trying to serve up on this shit platter. A challenge is studying the thing and saying to yourself, How can I make this story come across as respectfully and truthfully as I can, given my constraints?
Not ‘hey, let’s beat the shit out of people and completely destroy ANY integrity the source story had!’
I just hope Linkara gets his hands on this. He’d have a field day.
As it happens, I’m looking through the Transformers comics donated to me by fans to see if I can find something by the good Mr. Lee…
Dave seein’ that Pat Lee, he hatin’.
And I’m hatin’ with him. Yay!
Still snerking over the designer garment in Pat’s previous appearance in these here virtual pages,
Please, Pat. Put the shirt back on. In the name of all things holy… please.
Not to go against the grain or anything, but is waiting for the comic to actually be released and then judging it on its merits and faults against the rules here?
In before all the men feel share their insightful comments on how women are doin’ feminism wrong!
Yeah, the comments on this one were a little.. worrying.
Please, please, let’s take a moment to set the feminist debate aside, and ignore what a tool Pat Lee was, and consider, just for a second, how absolutely horrifically poorly illustrated the comic is.
Seriously, it’s like the colorist’s pallet was limited in a range from “pale dirt” to “fresh shit”, all the characters suffer from the worst cases of comic over-buffing, and the inking looks like it was done with a chainsaw.
So many awful, wrong comments about feminism in this thread.
Kind of creepy how every time feminism is mentioned a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to share with us all how very mad they are about the straw man they’re shaking in front of us. I blame folks like Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. They’ve been distorting the image of what feminism is for so long now that some people are just accepting the caricature uncritically.
It’s funny because you disagree with his position so you drew him in such a fashion as to make his position seem unreasonable!
Yes, it’s the goofy visuals that makes fetishized violence against women seem horrible.
I believe I have just fallen in love with you.
PS: I still want to know if that Cheese Explosion macaroni & cheese is actually good.
I didn’t like the Grilled Cheese flavor, but the other two were good.
I too have fallen in love with him. Therefore we must fight for the honor of loving him! Ready? Rock Paper Scissors…
You know, though, Willis… you should really update your renditions of Pat Lee.
From every recent pic I’ve seen of the guy… he wears a cap 24/7 now.
I had a cap on him in the penciling, but I just like drawing his two-pronged hair too much, so it went away.
Very smart and well-drawn.
one thing i don’t get is that if a woman defends herself from a man it’s fine but if a man defends himself from a woman its abuse. i know i met a couple that had that problem so figure,
In no way do I seek to downplay violence committed against men by women, but statistically speaking it’s far, far more likely to be a man abusing a woman. That’s just the facts. You can debate all you like about what it means, but the numbers don’t lie and they’re easily available to you.
Did you just say “numbers don’t lie”? Have you ever taken a statistics class? lol
Numbers DO lie. They lie often and well.
I think women attack men a lot. I think men are less likely to report it. I have no information on which attacks the other the most, though.
That is because women are seen as “weaker” than men, and thus incapable of doing any damage. Which is sexist, and harms both men AND women (because if you’re a man and a woman hits you, either you’re lying or you’re not masculine enough).
Patriarchy hurts everyone.
The way I see it, if anyone hits me with the intent to injure I will respond in kind HARDER to make sure they dont get another chance.
In my country we call that excessive use of force and it will often net you criminal charges (though provocation will be a mitigating factor in sentencing and ‘self-defence’ will inevitably come up at the trial).
The correct response is to attempt to reason with them and, if that fails, to contact the proper authorities and flee.
Then again, state-side I hear you’re given much more freedom to defend yourself violently (hell, in the States apparently it’s legal to use violence – even firearms – to defend your POSSESSIONS).
its the ego of the men that stop them from telling, think about it.
… two words, dumb. ass.
…Huh. The things I read/watch/see often kill off women. In fact, one book I read had a woman protagonist who behaved much like a standard male protagonist in terms of her actions and thoughts, and she got killed in the first half of the book. The rest is from her killer’s point of view. I’m kind of sad I forgot the title of the book.
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