Lookit me, buying Reprolabels.com‘s upgrade sticker set for Reveal the Shield Tracks for not the same reason as everyone else, because I’m unique and counter-culture-y! Ah-heh. No.
Is Wheeljack out yet? Is he?
Anyway, nobody likes Tracks’ new tribal-style flame deco on his hood, and so everyone was super happy when Reprolabels made a sticker set for him that gave him some labels that’ll cover them up with a more classic-style flame pattern. Yeah, I didn’t want those. The tribal-pattern flames don’t bother me, and the retro-style flames are just kind of gross. Plus, yikes, they were designed by the guy who drew this. I don’t want that on my stuff. I have some scruples left. Not many, but a few.
Instead, I was all about the other stickers included in the set, most of which you can’t see in this photo because I didn’t feel like transforming Tracks back into car mode just so you could see his new foglights. There’s also a license plate sticker and some chrome silver stickers that apply on the business end of his side-view mirrors. That’s the kinda stuff I always like seeing in these sets. I like “completing” the vehicle mode.
The robot mode stuff is almost always secondary to me. But there’s an awful lot more of it than the vehicle mode stuff, so that’s why there’s a picture of it here. He’s got yellow stripes on his feet, which I much appreciated, some more-complete red stripes on his wings, which I was okayish on, and green stripes that wrap around his missiles, which are okay by me because I like adding color like that. There’s also silver stickers that go on his knees which I only added because at that point I was having fun putting on stickers.
So let me get this straight…
The company that makes add-on parts for Hasbro toys and original figures that are “inspired” by Hasbro-owned characters are intellectual property stealing jerks, but the company that produces and sells actual reproductions of Hasbro-owned labels and logos is A-OK.
Is that right? Seems like an odd double standard.
Oh, wait…I forgot which one advertises on tfwiki.net.
Hasbro has used Reprolabels internally. They unofficially have Hasbro’s blessing. They can’t officially have Hasbro’s blessing for a bunch of really obvious reasons.
Also, I have absolutely no idea how you could equivocate selling stickers for a Hasbro toy for those who have lost theirs … to designing, engineering and selling a complete Transformers character toy in lieu of real Hasbro product. When have I gone after folks who’ve made replacement Fort Max guns or Optimus Prime fists? I haven’t, and that’d be the non-laughable comparison to Reprolabels.
And, please, let me tell you a story about TFwiki’s OTHER perennial sponsor, TFSource. Featuring heavily in their ad rotations elsewhere are banners for these “third-party” Transformers, but part of the agreement before making them a longterm sponsor was that we couldn’t have these products in their ads on our site. It was just a matter of principle, and one that could have cost us dearly. They could have turned us down out-right! Plus those products are very popular, and not being able to advertise them could hypothetically backfire on us if not enough people click on their ads. The principle was more important than the money, though. And, thankfully, in the end we were still worth TFsource’s money even without having to advertise third-party products. But if that hadn’t worked out in the end, then so be it. Believe me, if we had a moral problem with Reprolabels, they wouldn’t be on the site. Your accusation of money-led bias is amusing, considering the realities of our situation and the sacrifices we were willing to make.
That set contains a replacement for the rub sign, and you didn’t use it? That’s almost as bad as actually liking the Tribal patt.. oh.
The rub signs are awesome. I’m keeping the rub signed versions of my “Battle in Space” Rodimus and Cyclonus and selling the ol’ tampographed ones.
Yeah, replacing the rubsign with a normal sticker is not really an option that makes sense for me. Why would you [i]remove[/i] a functional gimmick?
I bought my Soundwave when the rubsigns were new, and I didn’t know what it was; I assumed it was some sort of placeholder for the real Decepticon logo, so I pulled it off before noticing that the sticker sheet didn’t have one. (That doesn’t necessarily answer why someone would knowingly remove it, of course.)
Infringement is infringement. If a company decides that it doesn’t want to pursue legal action against the thieves (as Hasbro has apparently decided in regards to both Reprolabels and FansProject), then that’s the company’s prerogative. It doesn’t, however, change the fact that both are profiting from someone else’s intellectual property. You can cry “unofficial support!” all you want, but if Hasbro’s lawyers felt that either company was a threat to their bottom line, these “third parties” would have been shut down ages ago.
In this case, one thieving company meets your needs–fan-centric if not financial–while the other doesn’t. Until, of course, it does (http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/428713.html and http://www.shortpacked.com/2010/blog/guns/).
Defending one company while condemning the other comes across as more than a bit hypocritical. For as much as you claim that Reprolabels provides a valuable service to collectors by letting them repair/enhance their old toys, one could just as easily argue that at least FansProjects designs its own products–Reprolabels simply scans Hasbro’s property, prints it out, and resells it (save its custom sets, of course). They may just be stickers, but it’s still intellectual property theft. No amount of “unofficial support” will change that.
That said, I’ve purchased products from both companies as well as other “third parties.” I choose not to buy products from iGear because it seems to flat-out steal Hasbro’s designs for some of its products. Of course, seeing as how I’ve already bought a “pretty much, but not really” Springer and bootleg Autobot and Decepticon faction stickers, I’m not going to get all uppity when I find out that someone is going to buy iGears “tiny Masterpiece Prime.” Still, I’m sure that Hasbro’s legal department is thankful to have you out spreading the good word. Their lawyers probably can’t figure out who to sue on their own.
If third-party companies didn’t operate out of places that sat outside the law, I doubt they’d be around anymore. That’s what complicates things. Reprolabels, meanwhile, is in North America, where C&Ds have some authority.
I enjoy how you continue to gleefully fabricate my motives and desires. My life isn’t your fanfic, dude. Maybe when I say I don’t like Fake-Springer is because it takes theft too far, exactly as I’ve stated, and not because of my secret evil plans to rule the world or whatever. Feel free to stop being a fanficking jackass some time soon, or you’ll find yourself in the site’s blacklist.
Now pardon me, my flight’s boarding now.
That’s quite an ego you’re sporting there if you think that anyone with a differing opinion than yours is “writing a fanfic about you.” I’m merely pointing out that one form of intellectual property theft is no more valid than the other–something that you seem to believe. After all, you claim that creating a toy that sorta looks like a Hasbro character is “taking theft too far” while creating and selling EXACT DUPLICATES of Hasbro property is perfectly fine–supported by Hasbro, even!
You can quip all you want about “fanfic” and “secret evil plans” and whatnot, but that doesn’t hide the fact that you’re not giving an explanation as to why you feel that one company’s theft is “better” than the others.
I’ll phrase it bluntly so that you don’t read any sort of sarcasm or “fanficking jackassery” into it: Why do feel that it’s OK for Reprolabels to create and sell exact copies of Hasbro material when it’s not OK for FansProject (and other companies) to create and sell original designs based on Hasbro properties? Supported/tolerated by Hasbro or not, both instances are forms of theft. What makes one justifiable in your eyes while the other is not?
So what will you do now? Actually answer my question? Attempt to explain your viewpoint to someone with an opposing point of view? Have an actual discussion? Or crack a joke and ban me from your site?
Enjoy your flight!
Reprolabels has, actually, gotten C&Ded in the past, I believe. They used to offer a “Marlboor Wheeljack” set until a certain cigarette manufacturer told them they really shouldn’t. (I am sure you can imagine the legal nightmare of offering stickers that even PRETEND to promote cigarettes that are meant to be applied to childrens’ playthings).
But Hasbro is fine with them. Hasbro is also fine with small-scale garage kit producers. I believe a semi-official statement was along the lines of “As long as it’s fans doing it for other fans out of their homes or garages, it’s cool. When you have your own factory setup with your own molds and toolings and production runs, then it gets problematic.”
In other words, it’s OK for Reprolabels to do it because Hasbro SAID it was OK. It is not OK for FansProject to do so because Hasbro SAID it wasn’t OK. easy enough for you, sparkles?
“Sparkles.” Very clever. Let’s see if I can respond without any snide name calling.
When/where did Hasbro claim that Reprolabels was “OK?” As Walky already pointed out, it would be difficult for Hasbro to explicitly approve of Reprolabel’s practices because, well, it’s theft of the company’s intellectual property.
The implication that you’re making (which may or may not be Walky’s view as well) is that intellectual property theft is fine as long as the copyright/trademark holder suggests that it is (or at least implies that it is by not pursuing legal action against the thieves).
Is this correct? Note that this is a perfectly valid viewpoint. You’re more than welcome to allow a large corporation to interpret the law for you. Likewise, you can also use that corporation’s words and actions as rationalization for when you decide to purchase some bootleg stickers.
This is, of course, a different view from my own. I’m simply trying to gain an understanding of the thought process of those who claim that company A’s bootleg merchandise is justified while company B’s is not.
Personally, I recognize that none of these products are strictly on the up-and-up. However, I have no problem purchasing those products that suit my taste (as I mentioned, I own items from both FansProject and Retrolabels). I just don’t feel the need to pretend to be an advocate for a massive toy company as I do it. Hasbro’s legal department can take care of itself–it doesn’t need my help.
A find kettle of fish this thread has degenerated into.
Reprolabels and are customization kits are accessories for Hasbro-issued toys– they are useless without them and their sale effectively insures purchase, and thus $$ headed Hasbro’s way. Full-blown fan-produced toys, by contrast replace Hasbro-issued toys. The distinction– moral AND legal– is not a subtle one.
As for Mr. Copper… I question his blackening of Willis’s argument while his own is in such dire need of polishing.
You have to buy the official toy in the first place for the stickers to be of any use, so I’m really not seeing where your moral outrage is coming from.
Also, your insult about “allowing a large corporation to interpret the law for you”, in the midst of your argument white-knighting for that very corporation is pretty hilarious.
If the copyright/trademark holder actually does “suggest” that it is fine to copy or mimic their products, then it ISN’T intellectual property theft. Explicitly. This established fact is pretty much the basis for the existence of the GNU public license.
When they’re silent on the matter, it is of course dodgier – but a rights-holder does in fact have the right to allow other people to duplicate their copyrighted material at their discretion. That’s actually pretty much the definition of owning a copyright, actually.
Hmmm…you know, it’s funny, but I can’t find record of Hasbro saying either of those things. A little hearsay but no actual words…
Actually, I take that back. The statement I can find easily was on Febuary 7th, 2008 attacking reproduction of their GIJoe art. Which makes a great deal of sense. Legally, their art would definitely constitute logos and such, being duplicates. However most likely the legal comparison would fall apart somewhat in regard to works “inspired by” theirs.
So, factually FP and such are probably less illegal (Or less warned against) than Reprolabels.
By and in large though, they avoid making comments about these things so they don’t have to worry about killing products they don’t see as a threat yet (plausible deniability etc).
Fun, innit?
Personally, I’ve noticed for a while that Willis seems to have a bit of an annoying axe to grind when it comes to third party companies, but by and in large I’ve been able to ignore it. It isn’t as loud from him as some people, even if the fact he’s got a good webcomic means I find it harder to resist reading it.
Still, I’m a little curious how far this can go. If I create a universe with sentient transforming robots, how far out of my way should I go to ensure the asthentic looks nothing like transformers (and for that matter WHICH version) before certain people (many worse than willis) will stop accusing me of being an evil evil copyright infringing hamster?
Heck, he bought the “unofficial” teletraan 1 base/backdrop, which was less original work than many of these other “unofficial” products I’ve seen. At least a fair chunk of Fansproject is heavily re-imagined.
Eh, not a big deal to me either way. Not like I’m going to be buying most of their stuff.
Okay dude, back the truck up. Willis is saying that you’re “writing fanfic about him” because the argument you attribute to him is in fact a position that he has never held on the subject. You are actually in this case blithely arguing against the David Willis of Earth 2 rather than the David Willis that resides in this universe. While this may allow you to look somewhat better, it does not obligate Willis to address your points when they’re referencing opinions he’s never had. It’s intellectually dishonest to force him into a “when did you stop beating your wife?” situation, rhetorically.
Here are the facts in this case: Willis owns a City Commander set. He owns a Sidearm set. He owns a Headrobots Hothead set. These are all verifiable things because he’s posted online toy reviews of all of them via this very blog. For the most part, by his own admission, Willis’ threshold is when these companies sell a product that does not require a Hasbro product in order to operate. That is to say that City Commander or Hothead, which attach to Ultra Magnus and Hardhead respectively, are cool while Defender is not. This is fairly consistent with his position on Reprolabels, as all those require the original Hasbro product to be applied to as well. You can’t spend $80 at Reprolabels and somehow come out of it with a transforming robot product composed entirely of stickers or anything.
And for that matter, the moral high horse you’re attributing to him here simply doesn’t exist. He’s stated simply that he’s personally uncomfortable with things like Defender, so he doesn’t buy those products. He’s otherwise partaken of third-party add-ons, as I said above.
So again, Willis is not particularly obligated to take you seriously until you start arguing with him, not the person you’ve decided he is.
I still think his license plate should say “BTRTHNU.” “2 SEXY” is just. . . obvious. And not nearly arrogant enough.
I kinda wanted it to say DONGS.
No, this isn’t off the deep end of the toy fandom. The deep end is styling My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic hair to be show-accurate.
Which I don’t have the
gutsmoney to do at the moment.No, that’s not the deep end. The deep end will be when I give up and rehair Fluttershy after (almost) inevitably botching the haircut. Which I may have to do anyway, because her tail hole’s going to need a slight expansion to get a heavy enough tail in there for physics to work, and I want everything to match.
Case study Douchebaggy vs non-douche baggy interaction.
Non-douche bag: “Hey, I saw you don’t really approve of 3rd party figures but you’re ok with these. What differentiates the two for you?” And then listening to and respecting the answer.
Douche baggy: “Hey you disapprove of those figures but like these stickers? In my personal opinion those are exactly the same and you are a greedy hypocrite because one of them is paying you money, and thats why you like them you greedy hypocrite! Narf!” And then acting like the subject of the ridiculous screed is obligated to respond and justify themselves to you.